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edudlive

09-06-2005, 09:45 PM Post subject: need help with my HU game

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: 100NL 6max

Posts: 623

This is a serious leak in my game, I'm just not laggy enough heads up. Can anyone give me some pointers? Any general advice for HU and/or analysis of my HH here is very welcome. Here is my HH from my last HU SNG

*********** # 1 **************
PokerStars Game #2513691051: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:31:47 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (1500 in chips)
edudlive: posts small blind 10
johnac58: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [2c 2h]
edudlive: calls 10
johnac58: checks
*** FLOP *** [6d 3c Jd]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: bets 40
johnac58: folds
edudlive collected 40 from pot
edudlive: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 40 | Rake 0
Board [6d 3c Jd]
Seat 1: edudlive (button) (small blind) collected (40)
Seat 2: johnac58 (big blind) folded on the Flop

*********** # 2 **************
PokerStars Game #2513694083: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:32:11 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (1520 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (1480 in chips)
johnac58: posts small blind 10
edudlive: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [3c As]
johnac58: calls 10
edudlive: checks
*** FLOP *** [4s 2s 2c]
edudlive: bets 50
johnac58: folds
edudlive collected 40 from pot
edudlive: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 40 | Rake 0
Board [4s 2s 2c]
Seat 1: edudlive (big blind) collected (40)
Seat 2: johnac58 (button) (small blind) folded on the Flop

*********** # 3 **************
PokerStars Game #2513696473: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:32:31 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (1540 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (1460 in chips)
edudlive: posts small blind 10
johnac58: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [7s 8c]
edudlive: raises 20 to 40
johnac58: calls 20
*** FLOP *** [9s Qs Kd]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: bets 50
johnac58: raises 50 to 100
edudlive: folds
johnac58 collected 180 from pot
johnac58: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 180 | Rake 0
Board [9s Qs Kd]
Seat 1: edudlive (button) (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: johnac58 (big blind) collected (180)

*********** # 4 **************
PokerStars Game #2513700322: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:33:02 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (1450 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (1550 in chips)
johnac58: posts small blind 10
edudlive: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Kh 7h]
johnac58: calls 10
edudlive: checks
*** FLOP *** [8d Qd 9c]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: checks
*** TURN *** [8d Qd 9c] [6c]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: checks
*** RIVER *** [8d Qd 9c 6c] [Ac]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: bets 20
edudlive: folds
johnac58 collected 40 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 40 | Rake 0
Board [8d Qd 9c 6c Ac]
Seat 1: edudlive (big blind) folded on the River
Seat 2: johnac58 (button) (small blind) collected (40)

*********** # 5 **************
PokerStars Game #2513703128: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:33:25 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (1430 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (1570 in chips)
edudlive: posts small blind 10
johnac58: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Ad 6c]
edudlive: calls 10
johnac58: checks
*** FLOP *** [Qd Qc 7h]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** TURN *** [Qd Qc 7h] [Jc]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** RIVER *** [Qd Qc 7h Jc] [Ac]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: bets 30
johnac58: folds
edudlive collected 40 from pot
edudlive: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 40 | Rake 0
Board [Qd Qc 7h Jc Ac]
Seat 1: edudlive (button) (small blind) collected (40)
Seat 2: johnac58 (big blind) folded on the River

*********** # 6 **************
PokerStars Game #2513706454: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:33:52 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (1450 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (1550 in chips)
johnac58: posts small blind 10
edudlive: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [7d 5d]
johnac58: raises 20 to 40
edudlive: folds
johnac58 collected 40 from pot
johnac58: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 40 | Rake 0
Seat 1: edudlive (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: johnac58 (button) (small blind) collected (40)

*********** # 7 **************
PokerStars Game #2513707844: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:34:04 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (1430 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (1570 in chips)
edudlive: posts small blind 10
johnac58: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Kh 2c]
edudlive: calls 10
johnac58: checks
*** FLOP *** [Ad Kd Qc]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** TURN *** [Ad Kd Qc] [Th]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** RIVER *** [Ad Kd Qc Th] [7h]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: bets 20
johnac58: calls 20
*** SHOW DOWN ***
edudlive: shows [Kh 2c] (a pair of Kings)
johnac58: mucks hand
edudlive collected 80 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 80 | Rake 0
Board [Ad Kd Qc Th 7h]
Seat 1: edudlive (button) (small blind) showed [Kh 2c] and won (80) with a pair
of Kings
Seat 2: johnac58 (big blind) mucked [6d 7d]

*********** # 8 **************
PokerStars Game #2513711031: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:34:30 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (1470 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (1530 in chips)
johnac58: posts small blind 10
edudlive: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [4d Td]
johnac58: calls 10
edudlive: raises 30 to 50
johnac58: calls 30
*** FLOP *** [Qs Ks Th]
edudlive: bets 75
johnac58: calls 75
*** TURN *** [Qs Ks Th] [Jh]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: checks
*** RIVER *** [Qs Ks Th Jh] [Ts]
edudlive: bets 75
johnac58: raises 75 to 150
edudlive: calls 75
*** SHOW DOWN ***
johnac58: shows [Qd 4h] (two pair, Queens and Tens)
edudlive: shows [4d Td] (three of a kind, Tens)
edudlive collected 550 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 550 | Rake 0
Board [Qs Ks Th Jh Ts]
Seat 1: edudlive (big blind) showed [4d Td] and won (550) with three of a kind,
Tens
Seat 2: johnac58 (button) (small blind) showed [Qd 4h] and lost with two pair,
Queens and Tens

*********** # 9 **************
PokerStars Game #2513715166: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:35:04 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (1745 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (1255 in chips)
edudlive: posts small blind 10
johnac58: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Qh Jd]
edudlive: raises 20 to 40
johnac58: raises 60 to 100
edudlive: folds
johnac58 collected 80 from pot
johnac58: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 80 | Rake 0
Seat 1: edudlive (button) (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: johnac58 (big blind) collected (80)

*********** # 10 **************
PokerStars Game #2513716903: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:35:17 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (1705 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (1295 in chips)
johnac58: posts small blind 10
edudlive: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Kh 7h]
johnac58: calls 10
edudlive: checks
*** FLOP *** [8c Qd 2d]
edudlive: bets 30
johnac58: folds
edudlive collected 40 from pot
edudlive: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 40 | Rake 0
Board [8c Qd 2d]
Seat 1: edudlive (big blind) collected (40)
Seat 2: johnac58 (button) (small blind) folded on the Flop

*********** # 11 **************
PokerStars Game #2513718930: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:35:34 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (1725 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (1275 in chips)
edudlive: posts small blind 10
johnac58: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Kd 6h]
edudlive: calls 10
johnac58: checks
*** FLOP *** [7h 5h 4h]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** TURN *** [7h 5h 4h] [3d]
johnac58: bets 20
edudlive: calls 20
*** RIVER *** [7h 5h 4h 3d] [2s]
johnac58: bets 20
edudlive: raises 55 to 75
johnac58: calls 55
*** SHOW DOWN ***
edudlive: shows [Kd 6h] (a straight, Three to Seven)
johnac58: mucks hand
edudlive collected 230 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 230 | Rake 0
Board [7h 5h 4h 3d 2s]
Seat 1: edudlive (button) (small blind) showed [Kd 6h] and won (230) with a
straight, Three to Seven
Seat 2: johnac58 (big blind) mucked [Qs 7c]

*********** # 12 **************
PokerStars Game #2513722161: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:36:00 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (1840 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (1160 in chips)
johnac58: posts small blind 10
edudlive: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [4c 3d]
johnac58: calls 10
edudlive: checks
*** FLOP *** [Ks Ts 4h]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: bets 20
edudlive: folds
johnac58 collected 40 from pot
johnac58: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 40 | Rake 0
Board [Ks Ts 4h]
Seat 1: edudlive (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: johnac58 (button) (small blind) collected (40)

*********** # 13 **************
PokerStars Game #2513724047: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:36:15 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (1820 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (1180 in chips)
edudlive: posts small blind 10
johnac58: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Kd 4c]
edudlive: raises 30 to 50
johnac58: folds
edudlive collected 40 from pot
edudlive: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 40 | Rake 0
Seat 1: edudlive (button) (small blind) collected (40)
Seat 2: johnac58 (big blind) folded before Flop

*********** # 14 **************
PokerStars Game #2513725532: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:36:27 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (1840 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (1160 in chips)
johnac58: posts small blind 10
edudlive: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [2s Qd]
johnac58: calls 10
edudlive: checks
*** FLOP *** [Jd 9c 3s]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: checks
*** TURN *** [Jd 9c 3s] [5h]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: bets 20
edudlive: folds
johnac58 collected 40 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 40 | Rake 0
Board [Jd 9c 3s 5h]
Seat 1: edudlive (big blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 2: johnac58 (button) (small blind) collected (40)

*********** # 15 **************
PokerStars Game #2513728083: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:36:48 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (1820 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (1180 in chips)
edudlive: posts small blind 10
johnac58: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [3c 3h]
edudlive: calls 10
johnac58: checks
*** FLOP *** [2h 2s As]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: bets 40
johnac58: folds
edudlive collected 40 from pot
edudlive: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 40 | Rake 0
Board [2h 2s As]
Seat 1: edudlive (button) (small blind) collected (40)
Seat 2: johnac58 (big blind) folded on the Flop

*********** # 16 **************
PokerStars Game #2513730245: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:37:06 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (1840 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (1160 in chips)
johnac58: posts small blind 10
edudlive: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Kh 7s]
johnac58: raises 20 to 40
edudlive: calls 20
*** FLOP *** [6h 4d Kc]
edudlive: bets 40
johnac58: raises 40 to 80
edudlive: calls 40
*** TURN *** [6h 4d Kc] [9s]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: bets 80
edudlive: calls 80
*** RIVER *** [6h 4d Kc 9s] [8h]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: bets 260
edudlive: calls 260
*** SHOW DOWN ***
johnac58: shows [8c Ac] (a pair of Eights)
edudlive: shows [Kh 7s] (a pair of Kings)
edudlive collected 920 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 920 | Rake 0
Board [6h 4d Kc 9s 8h]
Seat 1: edudlive (big blind) showed [Kh 7s] and won (920) with a pair of Kings
Seat 2: johnac58 (button) (small blind) showed [8c Ac] and lost with a pair of
Eights

*********** # 17 **************
PokerStars Game #2513734235: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:37:38 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (2300 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (700 in chips)
edudlive: posts small blind 10
johnac58: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [8d 5s]
edudlive: calls 10
johnac58: checks
*** FLOP *** [Jh 8c 8s]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** TURN *** [Jh 8c 8s] [Kh]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** RIVER *** [Jh 8c 8s Kh] [6h]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: bets 40
johnac58: calls 40
*** SHOW DOWN ***
edudlive: shows [8d 5s] (three of a kind, Eights)
johnac58: mucks hand
edudlive collected 120 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 120 | Rake 0
Board [Jh 8c 8s Kh 6h]
Seat 1: edudlive (button) (small blind) showed [8d 5s] and won (120) with three
of a kind, Eights
Seat 2: johnac58 (big blind) mucked [5c Qh]

*********** # 18 **************
PokerStars Game #2513737122: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:38:02 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (2360 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (640 in chips)
johnac58: posts small blind 10
edudlive: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Qc 9d]
johnac58: raises 20 to 40
edudlive: calls 20
*** FLOP *** [5c 2h 5h]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: checks
*** TURN *** [5c 2h 5h] [9c]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: checks
*** RIVER *** [5c 2h 5h 9c] [9s]
edudlive: bets 75
johnac58: calls 75
*** SHOW DOWN ***
edudlive: shows [Qc 9d] (a full house, Nines full of Fives)
johnac58: mucks hand
edudlive collected 230 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 230 | Rake 0
Board [5c 2h 5h 9c 9s]
Seat 1: edudlive (big blind) showed [Qc 9d] and won (230) with a full house,
Nines full of Fives
Seat 2: johnac58 (button) (small blind) mucked [7c Ad]

*********** # 19 **************
PokerStars Game #2513740231: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:38:28 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (2475 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (525 in chips)
edudlive: posts small blind 10
johnac58: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Td 4h]
edudlive: calls 10
johnac58 said, "u cant be dat lucky everyhandu got sumthin"
johnac58: checks
*** FLOP *** [6h Kh 3c]
edudlive said, "lucky?"
edudlive said, "you act like i called you down"
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** TURN *** [6h Kh 3c] [As]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** RIVER *** [6h Kh 3c As] [7c]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
johnac58: shows [Qc 5d] (high card Ace)
edudlive: mucks hand
johnac58 collected 40 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 40 | Rake 0
Board [6h Kh 3c As 7c]
Seat 1: edudlive (button) (small blind) mucked [Td 4h]
Seat 2: johnac58 (big blind) showed [Qc 5d] and won (40) with high card Ace

*********** # 20 **************
PokerStars Game #2513745007: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:39:07 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (2455 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (545 in chips)
johnac58: posts small blind 10
edudlive: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Ad Th]
johnac58: folds
edudlive collected 20 from pot
edudlive: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 20 | Rake 0
Seat 1: edudlive (big blind) collected (20)
Seat 2: johnac58 (button) (small blind) folded before Flop

*********** # 21 **************
PokerStars Game #2513746288: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:39:18 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (2465 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (535 in chips)
edudlive: posts small blind 10
johnac58: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Jd Kh]
edudlive: raises 40 to 60
johnac58: folds
edudlive collected 40 from pot
edudlive: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 40 | Rake 0
Seat 1: edudlive (button) (small blind) collected (40)
Seat 2: johnac58 (big blind) folded before Flop

*********** # 22 **************
PokerStars Game #2513747707: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:39:30 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (2485 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (515 in chips)
johnac58: posts small blind 10
edudlive: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [7h Js]
johnac58: calls 10
edudlive: checks
*** FLOP *** [3c 4c Jc]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: checks
*** TURN *** [3c 4c Jc] [9h]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: checks
*** RIVER *** [3c 4c Jc 9h] [4h]
edudlive: bets 20
johnac58: raises 60 to 80
edudlive: calls 60
*** SHOW DOWN ***
johnac58: shows [Jh Td] (two pair, Jacks and Fours)
edudlive: shows [7h Js] (two pair, Jacks and Fours - lower kicker)
johnac58 collected 200 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 200 | Rake 0
Board [3c 4c Jc 9h 4h]
Seat 1: edudlive (big blind) showed [7h Js] and lost with two pair, Jacks and
Fours
Seat 2: johnac58 (button) (small blind) showed [Jh Td] and won (200) with two
pair, Jacks and Fours

*********** # 23 **************
PokerStars Game #2513751249: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:39:58 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (2385 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (615 in chips)
edudlive: posts small blind 10
johnac58: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Ah Ad]
edudlive: raises 30 to 50
johnac58: calls 30
*** FLOP *** [2d 2h Ks]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: bets 75
johnac58: folds
edudlive collected 100 from pot
edudlive: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 100 | Rake 0
Board [2d 2h Ks]
Seat 1: edudlive (button) (small blind) collected (100)
Seat 2: johnac58 (big blind) folded on the Flop

*********** # 24 **************
PokerStars Game #2513753850: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:40:20 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (2435 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (565 in chips)
johnac58: posts small blind 10
edudlive: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [As Js]
johnac58: calls 10
edudlive: raises 30 to 50
johnac58: calls 30
*** FLOP *** [Ad Ts Th]
edudlive: bets 50
johnac58: folds
edudlive collected 100 from pot
edudlive: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 100 | Rake 0
Board [Ad Ts Th]
Seat 1: edudlive (big blind) collected (100)
Seat 2: johnac58 (button) (small blind) folded on the Flop

*********** # 25 **************
PokerStars Game #2513756556: Tournament #12231007, Hold'em No Limit - Match
Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/06 - 17:40:43 (ET)
Table '12231007 1' One on One Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: edudlive (2485 in chips)
Seat 2: johnac58 (515 in chips)
edudlive: posts small blind 10
johnac58: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Td Kh]
edudlive: calls 10
johnac58: checks
*** FLOP *** [9h 7s Ks]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** TURN *** [9h 7s Ks] [Kc]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** RIVER *** [9h 7s Ks Kc] [Th]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: bets 45
johnac58: raises 155 to 200
edudlive: raises 2265 to 2465 and is all-in
johnac58: calls 295 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
edudlive: shows [Td Kh] (a full house, Kings full of Tens)
johnac58: shows [6s 8c] (a straight, Six to Ten)
edudlive collected 1030 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1030 | Rake 0
Board [9h 7s Ks Kc Th]
Seat 1: edudlive (button) (small blind) showed [Td Kh] and won (1030) with a
full house, Kings full of Tens
Seat 2: johnac58 (big blind) showed [6s 8c] and lost with a straight, Six to Ten

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dalecooper

09-06-2005, 10:41 PM Post subject: Re: need help with my HU game

#2 (permalink)

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Here you go, hand by hand (each hand reduced to the important details)

Dealt to edudlive [2c 2h]
edudlive: calls 10
johnac58: checks
*** FLOP *** [6d 3c Jd]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: bets 40
johnac58: folds
edudlive collected 40 from pot

1. Raise any pocket pair. If he calls and then checks on the flop, bet. If he calls and bets the flop, raise at least half the time to see if he's serious. If he re-raises you pre-flop, with deuces you might call - in which case you're looking for a set, pretty much - or fold if it's a hefty re-raise.

2. Also since this is hand #1, it's important to establish yourself as the aggressor. Or an aggressor, at any rate - he might prove to be one too.

3. As a general rule don't bet the full pot all the time. I mix it up depending on my hand and my feeling about my opponent's hand, but my standard flop bet in heads-up play is 3/4 of the pot. You will accumulate more chips by risking less. A bet of 30 on a pot of 40 will encourage almost as many folds from your opponent as a bet of 40, and it costs you ten fewer chips.

johnac58: posts small blind 10
edudlive: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [3c As]
johnac58: calls 10
edudlive: checks
*** FLOP *** [4s 2s 2c]
edudlive: bets 50
johnac58: folds

1. Raise with any ace in heads up play.
2. I like betting this flop with a decent draw (gutshot + backdoor flush) and ace high, but you actually overbet the pot here - no real reason. It comes off a little scared and a knowing opponent might raise you on principle. Make a standard bet here, 3/4 or full pot.

edudlive: posts small blind 10
johnac58: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [7s 8c]
edudlive: raises 20 to 40
johnac58: calls 20
*** FLOP *** [9s Qs Kd]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: bets 50
johnac58: raises 50 to 100
edudlive: folds

1. Raise more pre-flop when you raise. You should always make it at least 3xBB, unless your opponent is super-passive and folding a lot. But as a general rule, don't min-raise.
2. Post-flop play is fine except I'd probably bet 60 on a pot of 80. You must fold to the check-raise; good fold. A lot of times in situations like this I'll pause a bit and then say "pocket 7s no good?" or some such lie. Not every time, but you don't want your opponent thinking you're always full of crap.

Dealt to edudlive [Kh 7h]
johnac58: calls 10
edudlive: checks
*** FLOP *** [8d Qd 9c]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: checks
*** TURN *** [8d Qd 9c] [6c]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: checks
*** RIVER *** [8d Qd 9c 6c] [Ac]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: bets 20
edudlive: folds
johnac58 collected 40 from pot

WAY passive. Any king in the hole is raisable pre-flop. After he checks the flop you should probably bet, but after he checks the turn too you MUST bet. That card (6c) was a very probable miss for his hand after two checks. You probably have him beat with king high.

Dealt to edudlive [Ad 6c]
edudlive: calls 10
johnac58: checks
*** FLOP *** [Qd Qc 7h]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** TURN *** [Qd Qc 7h] [Jc]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** RIVER *** [Qd Qc 7h Jc] [Ac]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: bets 30
johnac58: folds

Way too passive again. Raise pre-flop with the ace, then I'd suggest maybe to check behind on the flop and bet the turn. He'll think you're trapping and fold unless he has the queen himself. Easy fold to a check-raise on the turn.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [7d 5d]
johnac58: raises 20 to 40
edudlive: folds
johnac58 collected 40 from pot
johnac58: doesn't show hand

Oy vey. Don't fold any hand for a min-raise. Especially a decent little hand like this one, which is suited and almost connected. Call and take a flop. If he starts thinking you'll fold for a min-raise, he'll eat you alive.

Dealt to edudlive [Kh 2c]
edudlive: calls 10
johnac58: checks
*** FLOP *** [Ad Kd Qc]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** TURN *** [Ad Kd Qc] [Th]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** RIVER *** [Ad Kd Qc Th] [7h]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: bets 20
johnac58: calls 20
*** SHOW DOWN ***
edudlive: shows [Kh 2c] (a pair of Kings)
johnac58: mucks hand

Ugly. Raise pre-flop with your king, unless you're just changing up a bit. You have to bet the flop with a pair of kings unless he's aggressive and you're trapping him into a bluff. Definite bet on the turn as well, despite the scare card... he won't have the jack often enough to warrant a simple check-down.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [4d Td]
johnac58: calls 10
edudlive: raises 30 to 50
johnac58: calls 30
*** FLOP *** [Qs Ks Th]
edudlive: bets 75
johnac58: calls 75
*** TURN *** [Qs Ks Th] [Jh]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: checks
*** RIVER *** [Qs Ks Th Jh] [Ts]
edudlive: bets 75
johnac58: raises 75 to 150
edudlive: calls 75
*** SHOW DOWN ***
johnac58: shows [Qd 4h] (two pair, Queens and Tens)
edudlive: shows [4d Td] (three of a kind, Tens)
edudlive collected 550 from pot

Odd hand. I don't mind the raise as a change-up, but considering you've been limping in with aces and kings, and that you folded 57 of diamonds to a min-raise, this is a strange decision... a random bluff, basically. Your play post-flop is fine. By the way, if he bet the turn, I'd check-raise to represent the ace.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Qh Jd]
edudlive: raises 20 to 40
johnac58: raises 60 to 100
edudlive: folds
johnac58 collected 80 from pot
johnac58: doesn't show hand

NOOOOOO! OK, this is bad. First of all don't min-raise, as mentioned before. If you raise to 60 or 80 and he re-raises you a large amount, that's a pretty easy fold. But if you make a serious raise to begin with he's more likely to just call, and you get to play what is, in heads-up, a pretty good hand. Also, the way this was actually played, I'm calling that re-raise. Yes it's a powerful re-raise, but the pot is up to 160 and it's just 60 for you to call. Do you think QJ has a 3 in 8 chance of winning against another random hand that he might choose to re-raise with? Probably it does. And then there's implied odds if you hit the flop right. So basically I'm saying this: 1. raise more with QJ (or any hand); and 2. as played, called his re-raise and take a flop. If it's a good flop, run with it.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Kd 6h]
edudlive: calls 10
johnac58: checks

Last time I'll point this out: you should raise kings and aces often. Not every time, but regularly. You seem to never raise them. That's a big leak.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [4c 3d]
johnac58: calls 10
edudlive: checks
*** FLOP *** [Ks Ts 4h]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: bets 20
edudlive: folds

Don't check a pair in heads-up play unless you intend to check-raise. With bottom pair you want to bet the flop. It's a pretty easy fold if he raises you, and usually you'll just check down if he calls, but you have to bet this hand for value. You paired up, he probably did not.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [2s Qd]
johnac58: calls 10
edudlive: checks
*** FLOP *** [Jd 9c 3s]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: checks
*** TURN *** [Jd 9c 3s] [5h]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: bets 20
edudlive: folds

You should never let four cards come out without betting. This guy is passive, bet into him. Represent a hand. If you bet on the turn here he'll probably fold anything but a nine or jack. Also, you shouldn't make a habit of folding to min-bets. I know you have nothing, but that's weak. Raise his ass and find out if he's serious.

edudlive: posts small blind 10
johnac58: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [3c 3h]
edudlive: calls 10
johnac58: checks
*** FLOP *** [2h 2s As]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: bets 40
johnac58: folds
edudlive collected 40 from pot

Raise pre-flop with most baby pairs.

johnac58: posts small blind 10
edudlive: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Kh 7s]
johnac58: raises 20 to 40
edudlive: calls 20
*** FLOP *** [6h 4d Kc]
edudlive: bets 40
johnac58: raises 40 to 80
edudlive: calls 40
*** TURN *** [6h 4d Kc] [9s]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: bets 80
edudlive: calls 80
*** RIVER *** [6h 4d Kc 9s] [8h]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: bets 260
edudlive: calls 260
*** SHOW DOWN ***
johnac58: shows [8c Ac] (a pair of Eights)
edudlive: shows [Kh 7s] (a pair of Kings)
edudlive collected 920 from pot

I like the fact that you saw this hand through. However, I'm check-raising the turn. You have a king, he probably doesn't have anything that beats you... make him pay to play.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [8d 5s]
edudlive: calls 10
johnac58: checks
*** FLOP *** [Jh 8c 8s]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** TURN *** [Jh 8c 8s] [Kh]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** RIVER *** [Jh 8c 8s Kh] [6h]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: bets 40
johnac58: calls 40
*** SHOW DOWN ***
edudlive: shows [8d 5s] (three of a kind, Eights)
johnac58: mucks hand
edudlive collected 120 from pot

This is fine. Unfortunately a guy this passive won't pay off your monsters much.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Td 4h]
edudlive: calls 10
johnac58 said, "u cant be dat lucky everyhandu got sumthin"
johnac58: checks
*** FLOP *** [6h Kh 3c]
edudlive said, "lucky?"
edudlive said, "you act like i called you down"
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** TURN *** [6h Kh 3c] [As]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** RIVER *** [6h Kh 3c As] [7c]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
johnac58: shows [Qc 5d] (high card Ace)
edudlive: mucks hand

Two things: 1. don't check hands to the river unless there's a compelling reason to do so; you're just giving away chips. And 2. if you're going to bet with nothing, as you should here, bet the turn most of the time. You have position, he just checked twice - represent a made hand.

edudlive: posts small blind 10
johnac58: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Jd Kh]
edudlive: raises 40 to 60
johnac58: folds
edudlive collected 40 from pot
edudlive: doesn't show hand

Against a guy like this, that should be your standard raise. He obviously respects the amount, so raise that amount often and take his blinds.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [7h Js]
johnac58: calls 10
edudlive: checks
*** FLOP *** [3c 4c Jc]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: checks
*** TURN *** [3c 4c Jc] [9h]
edudlive: checks
johnac58: checks
*** RIVER *** [3c 4c Jc 9h] [4h]
edudlive: bets 20
johnac58: raises 60 to 80
edudlive: calls 60
*** SHOW DOWN ***
johnac58: shows [Jh Td] (two pair, Jacks and Fours)
edudlive: shows [7h Js] (two pair, Jacks and Fours - lower kicker)
johnac58 collected 200 from pot

The war of the slowplayed top pair. How odd. Or were you both fearing the flush? You need to bet this flop. If he calls, check it down.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Ah Ad]
edudlive: raises 30 to 50
johnac58: calls 30
*** FLOP *** [2d 2h Ks]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: bets 75
johnac58: folds
edudlive collected 100 from pot
edudlive: doesn't show hand

If you're raising a lot, as you should be, consider limping in with this hand and trapping. You want to get him betting into you with top or middle pair vs. your aces and take him to the cleaners.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Td Kh]
edudlive: calls 10
johnac58: checks
*** FLOP *** [9h 7s Ks]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** TURN *** [9h 7s Ks] [Kc]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: checks
*** RIVER *** [9h 7s Ks Kc] [Th]
johnac58: checks
edudlive: bets 45
johnac58: raises 155 to 200
edudlive: raises 2265 to 2465 and is all-in
johnac58: calls 295 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
edudlive: shows [Td Kh] (a full house, Kings full of Tens)
johnac58: shows [6s 8c] (a straight, Six to Ten)
edudlive collected 1030 from pot

No comment on the play (though I'm raising pre-flop and probably betting the flop here), but - ouch. He got slapped about on this one. Brutal.

edudlive

09-06-2005, 10:53 PM

#3 (permalink)

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So I should be raising any K, A, or PP...and probably just about every other hand? And reraising (and/or check raise) minbets?

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Fnord

09-06-2005, 11:21 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by edudlive

So I should be raising any K, A, or PP...and probably just about every other hand? And reraising (and/or check raise) minbets?

HU SnG, the blinds are 10/20 with 1500 stacks. What are we trying to accomplish by raising pre-flop? What's our game-plan for taking all the chips?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

edudlive

09-06-2005, 11:22 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by edudlive

So I should be raising any K, A, or PP...and probably just about every other hand? And reraising (and/or check raise) minbets?

HU SnG, the blinds are 10/20 with 1500 stacks. What are we trying to accomplish by raising pre-flop?

establish my role as the aggressor?

(16:02:25) Fleece: u think ur liked now?
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Fnord

09-06-2005, 11:23 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by edudlive

establish my role as the aggressor?

Why? How does this get us all the chips? What mistakes do our opponents love to make?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

edudlive

09-06-2005, 11:24 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by edudlive

establish my role as the aggressor?

Why?

What are my other options?

(16:02:25) Fleece: u think ur liked now?
(16:02:31) Fleece: that u got real life friends
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Fnord

09-06-2005, 11:27 PM

#8 (permalink)

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I have A2o and raise to 60, my opponent folds 23o. The score is 1520 to 1480, am I happy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

edudlive

09-06-2005, 11:28 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I have A2o and raise to 60, my opponent folds 23o. The score is 1520 to 1480, am I happy?

20 hands later you're 1700 and 1300

So are you telling me to basically limp everything and forget raising?

(16:02:25) Fleece: u think ur liked now?
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(16:02:48) Fleece: enjoy ur real life friends
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Fnord

09-06-2005, 11:31 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by edudlive

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I have A2o and raise to 60, my opponent folds 23o. The score is 1520 to 1480, am I happy?

20 hands later you're 1700 and 1300

Do you seriously think a typical HU SnG player folds to naked aggression 20 times in a row? After showing this aggression at the 10/20 level what have you learned about him? How is he going to adjust at the 15/30, 20/40 and 25/50 levels?

Quote:

Originally Posted by edudlive

So are you telling me to basically limp everything and forget raising?

No, I just think the simplistic pre-flop strategy you gave gives too much information, doesn't consider the nature of the blinds and the mistakes a typical player in one of these makes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

edudlive

09-06-2005, 11:32 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Then what can I do? I'm not really wanting to carry a HU SNG into 4-5 levels.

(16:02:25) Fleece: u think ur liked now?
(16:02:31) Fleece: that u got real life friends
(16:02:48) Fleece: enjoy ur real life friends
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Fnord

09-06-2005, 11:34 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by edudlive

Then how about something I can do, rather than telling me that raising at that level accomplishes nothing. I'm not really looking to take my HU game into 4-5 levels.

Just because I think you're wrong it doesn't mean I'm right. I'm more interested in the discussion than the answers.

Why such a rush, do you have a hot date?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

edudlive

09-06-2005, 11:36 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jul 2005

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Posts: 623

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by edudlive

Then how about something I can do, rather than telling me that raising at that level accomplishes nothing. I'm not really looking to take my HU game into 4-5 levels.

Just because I think you're wrong it doesn't mean I'm right. I'm more interested in the discussion than the answers.

Why such a rush, do you have a hot date?

Each level is what, 20 minutes? Thats over an hours time to just double your investment (granted that my HH posted was for a HU SNG..but I'm looking for a strategy that can apply to both MTT/SNG as well as cash game HU situations)

In other terms I guess. I'm looking for something that when/if I ever make it into the FT of a MTT...and I manage getting HU...what do I need to do?

(16:02:25) Fleece: u think ur liked now?
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Fnord

09-06-2005, 11:39 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by edudlive

The post was for HU SnGs. MTT/SnG HU is very different because by the time we get there we've already been on a few dates and the blinds/antes are probably bigger relative to the stacks (which are probably uneven) and quite often our opponent didn't get into this thing looking to mindlessly spray chips. I thought the levels were shorter, I'll double check when I get home.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

edudlive

09-06-2005, 11:40 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by edudlive

The post was for HU SnGs. MTT/SnG HU is very different because by the time we get there we've already been on a few dates and the blinds are probably bigger. I thought the levels were shorter, I'll double check when I get home.

I just looked, the HU SNGs are on a 10 minute blind sched.

I might not have said it very well, but I'm meaning this as a sort of general HU strategy (I included the SNG HH in order to give an example of my play), but any advice to any specific area of HU is very welcome

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Fnord

09-06-2005, 11:45 PM

#16 (permalink)

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Read the HoH section on HU play. Get into your opponent's head. Also, I made an edit about mind-set of a typical player going into one of these. A 9 handed SnG camper will have a very different mindset than your typical HU SnG player. Hence, approaching the two situations the same way probably isn't correct.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

edudlive

09-06-2005, 11:46 PM

#17 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Read the HoH section on HU play. Get into your opponents head. Also, I made an edit about mind-set of a typical player going into one of these. A 9 handed SnG camper will have a very different mindset than your typical HU SnG player. Hence, approaching the two situations the same way probably isn't correct.

By heads up I don't mean situations such as everyone but myself and OP folded, just in case that got lumped into my post on accident

(16:02:25) Fleece: u think ur liked now?
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Fnord

09-06-2005, 11:48 PM

#18 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by edudlive

By heads up I don't mean situations such as everyone but myself and OP folded, just in case that got lumped into my post on accident

I got that. Still many campers who get down to the final 2 of a SnG will make different mistakes than the HU SnG players I've run into. Although, blind structure when we get there feeds into this as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

edudlive

09-06-2005, 11:50 PM

#19 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by edudlive

By heads up I don't mean situations such as everyone but myself and OP folded, just in case that got lumped into my post on accident

I'd love for you give me examples of the mistakes each can/will make, that'd be a great addition to the thread

EDIT: is the HU play section in HOH1 or 2?

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Fnord

09-06-2005, 11:58 PM

#20 (permalink)

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Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

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It's my observation that HU SnG players often come to gamble and assume you are too. Many make horrible calls. Many will raise any 2 cards. Many will bet into any weakness. Some don't care about money. Almost all of them play worse post-flop than pre-flop. You will rarely be able to steal anything unless they have nothing, or you're against a somewhat thinking player and have established a passive reputation. Also, you don't know what you're in for until after a few hands. Without a read do you really want to play big pots with marginal holdings? Until shown otherwise, I see every hand as an oportunity to cripple my opponent making a horrible mistake.

Sometimes SnG players will play too tight and fold too much in these spots. Particularly with blinds that force them to gamble.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Fnord

09-07-2005, 12:16 AM

#21 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

HU vs a probably bad player, deep money. Stuff to consider:

o Folding getting 3:1 is never correct from a hot/cold perspective.
o Raising every hand won't work because many players in these games will call you often enough to defeat this approach. Also, you've cut down the amount of room you have to work with post-flop. Finally, if it gets down to bigger blinds, it will make blind steals more difficult.
o Hence you're going to have to mix raising and calling.
o If you raise every Ax and Kx you're too easy to put on a hand. Any aggro player with a single brain cell will try to steal paired and Axx or Kxx boards because they figure the thinking player can't call.
o Pay VERY close attention to your opponent's pre-flop play.
o Most of these are pretty much resolved in one key hand. Put yourself in a position to get the best of that key hand. If it looks like a grind, then just shift gears.
o When they start in with the silly openers (5xBB+) don't call. Re-raise if you're going to play.
o With deep stacks and an unknown/horrible/aggro opponent I will often just open fold the bottom 5% or so of hands. 23, 83, etc. I want to be there when they screw up. Playing the hand out puts that at risk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

andr3w321

09-07-2005, 12:35 AM

#22 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Chapel Hill, NC

Posts: 413

I'll raise to 4x the bb about every time I'm on the button unless I have 2 low unsuited cards. The object is not to get them to fold, but to just build the pot when you have position on them. Don't feel obligated to always continuation bet as they will be looking to check raise you a lot if you do. Raising preflop makes the pot bigger and makes it more tempting for your opponent to move all in more quickly. The game just takes way too long if you are playing a 40 chip pot before the flop in my opinion. HU is all about playing the player. Its hard to give very general advice.

Fnord

09-07-2005, 12:42 AM

#23 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by andr3w321

I'll raise to 4x the bb about every time I'm on the button unless I have 2 low unsuited cards.

I think this is highly exploitable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by andr3w321

The game just takes way too long if you are playing a 40 chip pot before the flop in my opinion.

After 5-10 min of not getting their gamb00ling fix many of these guys will get really impatient and make truely terrible plays. Even give the game away, so they can get it over with and find another donk to spew chips with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by andr3w321

HU is all about playing the player. Its hard to give very general advice.

Exactly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Miffed22001

09-07-2005, 12:57 AM

#24 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

I think fnord probably pointed it out, but HU play is about making your opponent think just once that he has the best hand to commit his stack with, when he actually doesnt.
The general advice is to raise any pp any ace any king. Plus probably raise any two cards 9 or higher (i believe the computers fixed the avaerage HU hand at Q7 or something similar)
For me while preflop is important, its not nearly as important as postflop (sounds a little silly i know) What i mean by this is you can really raise any two cards preflop its how they turn out post flop (and what you know your opp will call with pre flop) that matters
My early strat is simple. i stick to raising the recomended selection above and showing them, giving my opp an idea of what i have and what i raise with. Then i change gears. I start raising all sorts of random crap (even 72o if i have to but still respecting a reraise) and showing that. The idea is to try and make the opp feel you will play any old cards at any time for any price (not all in obviously with 72o) Now as fnord would have it, we have a strategy for taking the opps stack he has no idea what i have therefore when i bet and play post flop i might be repping bottom pair but i could have an overpair/set anything (becasue he has no idea what i have preflop)
If you are unreadable or at least difficult to read becasue opp cant put you on anything from preflop then we have potential to make opp make a mistake.
So what am i trying to say. Be unorthodox if your chip stack allows it, especially after creating an 'image' Make each pot say 3bbs/4bbs to go no matter what you have, check/raise/bet/check-raise at random even with nothing or a big hand and show. Show opp your random, tehn when you get a good read hes behind and you have something good trap him into making a mistake. Hopefully opp gets frustrated becasue he has no idea what you have and makes mistakes.
Just my 20 cents

the best HH i can find at the mo is this, ironiclly from a gauntlet game.
Stage #173270748: Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit $15 [ 2005-08-13 15:19:52 ]
*** ANTE [dealer 3] ***
Seat 1 - MIFFED22001 $4350 in chips
Seat 3 - ESATTECH $1650 in chips
MIFFED22001 - Post small blind $15
ESATTECH - Post big blind $30
MIFFED22001 - Pocket [As,10s] I make a raise with a good hand. Get a call
MIFFED22001 - Raises $15 to $150
ESATTECH - Calls $120
*** FLOP [7s,7h,2s] *** catch the flush draw. No bet, i want him to think im weak
MIFFED22001 - Checks
ESATTECH - Checks
*** TURN [7s,7h,2s,8s] *** Ok ive hit, but their is bluffability in this pot for opp. I raised so i have pp or high cards surely. Also i hold the ace of the suit, so i can let him see another card here (boadr is paired but unless he flopped a fh he would ahve defended those sevens by now)
MIFFED22001 - Checks
ESATTECH - Checks
*** RIVER [7s,7h,2s,8s,6s] *** Oh look, opp may very well have a flush too now, but a weaker one than mine (still wary of full house)
MIFFED22001 - Bets $240
ESATTECH - Raises $240 to $480 (mini raise makes me think he has a high flush jack or higher)
MIFFED22001 - All-In(Raise) $240 to $4200 (gambOOl that he thinks hes ahead)
ESATTECH - All-In $1020
MIFFED22001 - returned ($2700) : not called
*** SHOW DOWN ***
MIFFED22001 - Show cards [As,10s]
ESATTECH - Lost mucks he had the queen! i managed to suck him in
*** RESULT ***
Total Pot($3300)
Board [7s,7h,2s,8s,6s]
MIFFED22001 - Total ($3300) All-In HI

$3300)Flush, ace high [As,10s - P:As,P:10s,B:8s,B:7s,B:6s]
ESATTECH - HI: [Lost mucks]

The keys here are
what does opp think i raised with (hes right i have no pair on this board if he puts me on high cards)
did i bet my draw? no if opp paid attention most often i did
when i hit did i bet no (i have the nut flush so i hope he either bluffs this or he caught it too)
i looked weak enough (maybe first river bet was a little strong)
but once i know he hit it i commit pretty much guarenteed to be in front.

p.s APologies to essatech. This was the only HH i had available to try to ilustrate a few points.[/quote]

Fnord

09-07-2005, 01:04 AM

#25 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

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I agree with where you're going, but I don't see how raising a lot in the early levels is the best way to get you there. How does jamming lots of pots pre-flop heads-up (without a read) allow you to win the max and lose the least?

edit: also consider that by "mixing it up" you're making small mistakes to induce bigger mistakes. Against some players this is just wasting chips. In the HH shown, I think you opponent made 2 horrible mistakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Miffed22001

09-07-2005, 01:15 AM

#26 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I agree with where you're going, but I don't see how raising a lot in the early levels is the best way to get you there. How does jamming lots of pots pre-flop heads-up allow you to win the max and lose the least?

Early on if i hit something good i play it strong. If im weak i either bluff or simply cave in. Idea is too create the typical image so to speak of ill bet if im strong ill check if im weak, i ll bluff if your weak. The problem for opp comes when this no longer is the truth. If im now raising random hands and flop comes nasty looking he bets a good hand and i push (he knows i could have anything) what does he do fold every time? I only have to persuade him to all once behind when hes pretty strong but behind to take his chips. Early on is about creating an image, then changing it when hes bought it (if he ever does) then make him totally unsure of what i have, or thinking im still playing to the image i created. The idea is that if i raise ace high hands for 10 mins all the time then stop it but he doesnt notice and start raising leeser hands like 63o say and flop comes 45A i have an oppertunity to get a number of chips off him with a better hand than he may think i have. He might call with Aj against my 63o here and think hes ahead. What im getting at i guess is to so confuse the opp or to make him think i have something that i dont so much that when i really have got the best hand and get him to commit a good number of chips behind ill have him beat. I may have to oe a few pots with crap at first to do this or tell him i had crap.

Quote:

edit: also consider that by "mixing it up" you're making small mistakes to induce bigger mistakes. Against some players this is just wasting chips.

Very true.
Our aim though is to take opps stack. If we want to play abc poker and outplay him with the best hands thats fine and it will possibly work. But when we are readable (raising preflop with aces etc) opp is not going to commit stack when he can read our hand unless he has us beat. But Once we tell or show him we could have anything then when our anything flops hard and he has us on something else we have oppertunity to destack or steal more if he thinks hes ahead.

Fnord

09-07-2005, 01:19 AM

#27 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

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I'm much more interested in what my opponent is doing. Until I figure that out I want to keep pots small and give him lots of rope. ~1 in 5 times I'm against a truely terrible (drunk?) player, so all that pre-flop trickery is just silly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

dalecooper

09-07-2005, 01:43 AM

#28 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 3,107

My general approach against an unknown opponent (until I learn their moves and figure out an approach geared around them) is to establish myself as the more aggressive player and try to maintain an edge in small pots. This is of course a popular tactic. However, I think it creates two distinct advantages:

1. It gives you a small but constant chip edge that can only benefit you if you're a better post-flop player
2. It creates mistakes in your opponent's play

Fnord - you characterize regular raising - unfairly, I think - as chip-spewing and jamming. I know the players you're talking about, but I don't consider myself one of them. I like to raise most of my better hands for value. There's nothing wrong with getting more chips in the pot when I have an advantage in equity. I don't raise with some of these hands, at times, to mix up my play and, as you say, induce horrible mistakes. Obviously stronger hands are the best candidates for this as they are the least susceptible to unexpected beats. An opponent who is sick of your raising crap might decide to take a stand with a weak top pair right when you are playing meek for a change with pocket aces or kings... that's the ideal situation that the aggressive play sets up.

I agree with you that you don't necessarily want to play huge pots against opponents you can outplay later when they decide to gamble, but I wouldn't think of a raise from 20 to 60 as setting up a huge pot, either. Stacks are 1500 - is a pre-flop pot of 120 (when he even calls) really a monster? If you take down just a few of these in a row without a showdown you make your opponent nervous. The next time they make a big mistake, you'll have them outchipped and thus be in prime position to take advantage.

You seem to advocate patience as the main method of letting opponents make errors... I think raising them more than they raise you is another way, and it often can force errors in play faster.

It also has the advantage of boxing most opponents into a very transparent gameplan. Very often they decide to counter your aggression with trapping, which means any time they hit a flop hard they check-raise or slowplay. Once you learn to sniff this out, you'll rarely lose a big pot to your opponent, and the rest of the time you'll win 75% of the hands.

I do think there is a valid need for change-ups, sometimes within a single game (you can't be too predictable with any one type of hand) but more related to the opponent you play. Obviously if someone is determined to NOT let you be the sole aggressor, there's no point getting into a chip-spewing war. But I've found that even though I'm just a medium-aggressive heads up player, the average opponent online will let me run the show and sacrifice small pots to me almost as often as I want them. This really works to my advantage unless they get a very lucky hand early on. Given 10-15 minutes of play against this type, I'll have them outchipped at least 2:1 most of the time. Then it's just a matter of being patient. I actually tend to slow down as i go along... it's easier to steal a lot of pots early, build a chip lead, and then patiently exploit their weaknesses as they open up the aggression and try to come back on you.

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