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wufwugy
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01-23-2008, 12:17 AM
Post subject: My first triple barrel shove bluff
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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played 150 hands with villian, no outstanding history. His stats suggest he's a sTAG or semi-LAG, which is what he has me around probably.
I'm new to shorthanded and very new to multi-barrel and stack bluffing so I don't really know what to look for.
Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 4 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter
Hero (UTG): $189.35
BTN: $339
SB: $305.05
BB: $152.30
Pre-Flop: 7 K dealt to Hero (UTG)
Hero raises to $7, BTN calls $7, 2 folds
Flop: ($17) A 5 4 (2 Players)
Hero bets $14, BTN calls $14
Turn: ($45) 9 (2 Players)
Hero bets $35, BTN calls $35
River: ($115) J (2 Players)
Hero bets $133.35 and is All-In
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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good be good, could be bad.
depends on how he plays postflop. and what he is capable of calling with on btn. like just calling you utg raise with AK/AQ?
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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your basically betting the turn to 3-barrel. That usually isn't good.
Also i just wouldn't recommend trying to get someone off TP with a line like this.
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silu73
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,009
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I would not 3-barrel on this board after c/bet has been called. You could take this line with TPTK but I don't believe he would fold 2 pair which I believe he has most of the time.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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doesn't 44,55,99 take this exact line?
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by meeloche
doesn't 44,55,99 take this exact line?
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if hes bad maybe
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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looking at it again i doubt he folds any A
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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Due to timing tells and player image I felt he had a draw he didn't feel like raising flop with or a semi-weak ace, all of which he would look to fold to a river shove. As far as not folding an ace, mb I dunno, but regs on 1/2 FT don't seem that felt happy to a bet/bet/shove line from an unknown without a very strong hand.
But even then, I felt it was very ugly. I imagine the most correct way to triple barrel bluff is when we flop some kinda draw, or not on an ace high flop non-scary board. Would this have been better if the board was Q549J?
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
Also i just wouldn't recommend trying to get someone off TP with a line like this.
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Hmm, bet flop, check/shove turn ftw or what? You meant to say 'board' instead of 'line' or do you have some reason to believe bet/bet/shove doesn't fold out top pairs often enough?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Try not to build pots OOP with air
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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72 looks so much stronger
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Can we generally bet flop, check turn and bet river on this board when turn checks through.
Can someone help me on what type of hands bet the turn and what hands check behind?
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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this is a giant leap forward. you may never fold again, and great riches and success will be yours.
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Try not to build pots OOP with air
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Yeah you're definitely right about the air part when it comes to the majority of situations, but would firing 3 IP be any different here? I guess it's gonna be some different, but how much I ask. Firing 3 IP does kinda look stronger since we're able to check behind more often, and villian doesn't wanna play as many marginal hands OOP. So yea it is diff.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
this is a giant leap forward. you may never fold again, and great riches and success will be yours.
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I appreciate the encouragement.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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I don't know about anyone else, but my first big 3-barrell kinda snuck up on me. All of a sudden I was sitting on the river with nothing in a bloated pot, and god stated "He can not call a shove my son, so just do it pansy". I shoved, villain folded, and I went to change my underwear.
3-barrells are rare. They kind of choose you.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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Hahaha awesome Rondavu, thnx for the sig 
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wufwugy
Due to timing tells and player image I felt he had a draw
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If this is my strong read in a hand, then I usually just bet 2/3 pot or so, cause a missed draw is folding anyhow. Your bluff has to work a lot less often (40% of the time to breakeven) with a 2/3's pot bet vs your overbet shove (has to work 54% of the time to breakeven).
Also I find that a lot of players give more credit to a bet that seems like it wants to get called.
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cjs55
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 171
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Hell, if he's not a thinking player, you could just bet like $50 on the river if you think he's missed a draw. He can't call it with nothing, and if he's not thinking/creative he won't reraise your small bet. Maybe $70 is better incase he has a little something + a draw though. I read some quote the other day, "Bluffs need to be only enough to get the job done, and not a chip more."
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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i feel like ive tried this on a lot of similar boards thinking, he surely can not call this with a naked ace, but sure enough they do. its really weird, i feel more comfortable bluff shoving against donkeys than good players, even though good players are the ones folding TP.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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The entire issue of the hand is how sure you are he has a fd, because a fd is drawing too well against you. If you had a pair like 22 or 33 this would be much better. In general its pretty stupid to bet three streets with not even a glimpse of a draw.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Also I find that a lot of players give more credit to a bet that seems like it wants to get called.
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The term for players like that is "fish". If you bet big for value and small as a bluff against them then they'll be busto real quick.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wufwugy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
Also i just wouldn't recommend trying to get someone off TP with a line like this.
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Hmm, bet flop, check/shove turn ftw or what? You meant to say 'board' instead of 'line' or do you have some reason to believe bet/bet/shove doesn't fold out top pairs often enough? |
I meant both board and line. The board is just drawy enough and the river is safe enough that most players are just gonna call you down with an A here because you "could have a missed draw."
A turn check/raise is probably a better line, but since you don't have any outs i wouldn't reccomend it usually (unless you have good reads).
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
i feel like ive tried this on a lot of similar boards thinking, he surely can not call this with a naked ace, but sure enough they do. its really weird, i feel more comfortable bluff shoving against donkeys than good players, even though good players are the ones folding TP.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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Thanks for all the input. Next time I hope to not be so dirty.
He tanked then said 'nh' and folded. I believe our lack of history was quite important here. He had never seen me triple or probably even double without a sweet hand.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
The entire issue of the hand is how sure you are he has a fd, because a fd is drawing too well against you. If you had a pair like 22 or 33 this would be much better. In general its pretty stupid to bet three streets with not even a glimpse of a draw.
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Maybe 22 or 33 isn't a good example since vs a naked fd our equity is almost identical as with K high. Little better if our pair has one of suit.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wufwugy
Thanks for all the input. Next time I hope to not be so dirty.
He tanked then said 'nh' and folded. I believe our lack of history was quite important here. He had never seen me triple or probably even double without a sweet hand.
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He probably had diamonds. FWIW I never make a speech unless I'm folding air.
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