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lolzzz_321
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07-24-2008, 05:25 PM
Post subject: a more interesting KTs hand than my last one
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#1 (permalink)
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NO YOU
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: My ice is polarized
Posts: 2,797
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villain is 29/18
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Button ($148.35)
SB ($72.05)
Hero ($228.85)
UTG ($10.10)
MP ($106.20)
Preflop: Hero is BB with K , T.
2 folds, Button raises to $4, 1 fold, Hero calls $3.
Flop: ($8.50) 9 , 4, 9 (2 players)
Hero LEADS ???
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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I like donking out here, $6.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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check/raise
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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I don't know if I i like b3b, that's a lot of BB's to get in with 25% equity. Is it terrible to donk and just call if he raises?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
I don't know if I i like b3b, that's a lot of BB's to get in with 25% equity. Is it terrible to donk and just call if he raises?
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This is why I like a check/raise better. We pick off a c-bet and if he raises then his hand is better defined. Donking into him will win the least against air and if he raises it's hard to tell if he's just testing us. If he is, then we have no showdown value to let him spew off.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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i think bet/call flop is fine as is check/call.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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If we checkraise we have to fold a 3bet?
I definitely prefer check/call
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lolzzz_321
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NO YOU
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: My ice is polarized
Posts: 2,797
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Alright, obv being a sick hybrid of redgrape and nutsinho I decide to call!
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Button ($148.35)
SB ($72.05)
Hero ($228.85)
UTG ($10.10)
MP ($106.20)
Preflop: Hero is BB with K, T.
2 folds, Button raises to $4, 1 fold, Hero calls $3.
Flop: ($8.50) 9, 4, 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $6, Hero calls $6.
Turn: ($20.50) 5 (2 players)
Hero ????
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
If we checkraise we have to fold a 3bet?
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...or shove. Usually fold the once in a blue moon we get 3-bet.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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I think leading is fine. You are betting for value but also hopefully lessening your opponents positional advantage a little.
Having check-called, I think you should probably bet almost any river if it checks through on the turn.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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clear check call
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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For my 5000th post I'll describe why I think its a 95% c/c:
Speaking generally about your gameplan, this flop sucks to lead.
The reason for this is that its a flop that he's very likely to cbet. On flops like 994, or flops like K95, my number one objective is to capitalize on my opponent's overly zealous continuation betting and barreling strategy. I'll do so by check raise bluffing flops, check raising thinly for value, or check calling to induce barrels which I will then call.
On wetter flop textures, leading becomes a powerful and viable strategy, because there's a much higher likelihood that the flop will be checked through if I check. This is almost universally bad for me because if we both missed the flop he gets a free shot to hit and my ability to bluff is curtailed, and if I hit the flop he gets a free shot to beat me and I lose a potential street of value.
So that said, I'd never lead here because I don't want to shut down his cbet. The two remaining decisions are c/r and c/c.
C/r is however bad, because even though we have a pretty big hand, we aren't super stoked to get it in. Often times when we get it all in, he has a 9 and we are drawing just to our flush draw, and also sometimes we are completely dominated by the NFD. Essentially check raising is risking 100 big blinds to win like 14. Thats pretty poor risk/reward.
C/cing has some benefits though. It allows villain to barrel us when we turn a ten or a king. We get to profitably play multiple streets vs a pretty weak range, keeping the pot small while we don't have anything. Its also much lower variance. Also I actually think that we get less credit when we hit a flush, just because our passive line reeks of so many weak hands like pairs and ace high.
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D.Redstone
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7
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very nice post Renton, however I think you slightly over simplified things.
I think this really depends on villain tendencies and our image.
If villain is a TAG that CAN fold AA on this spot so our best line is B/3B AI. I we c/c and hit we're unlikely to get paid much vs said opponent.
if villain is a LAG we might c/c and c/r any turn as there is an excellent chance our Kh is already the best hand and we have outs in the rare occasion he does have a calling hand.
Against a normal decent player I like c/r, leading any turn. (folding to a shove) i really don't mind if villain folds his Ah. Though we have good equity on the flop its drops a lot on the turn and we'll have to c/f most turns.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by D.Redstone
If villain is a TAG that CAN fold AA on this spot so our best line is B/3B AI. I we c/c and hit we're unlikely to get paid much vs said opponent.
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Good luck with that. Also, consider that a lot of weaker players with Aces will just call you down.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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v nice post renton. v nice.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Nice post Renton.
Would you c/r 6 5?
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lolzzz_321
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NO YOU
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: My ice is polarized
Posts: 2,797
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uh he bets 12 i call, and i check a blank river and he checks back 77
meh
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by D.Redstone
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If villain is a TAG that CAN fold AA on this spot so our best line is B/3B AI.
Against a normal decent player I like c/r, leading any turn. (folding to a shove) i really don't mind if villain folds his Ah.
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1. haha at someone folding AA on 994 two tone
2. if they call flop and turn is a blank, what do you think they are going to fold to your barrel? I would only bet turn in this scenario if i pick up a gutter , hit a pair, or make a flush.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I think versus good players this is more of a c/c but in this situation I c/r like everytime. Yeah, ofc it sucks kind of when he threebets and gets it in, the 5% of the time it happens. And even then, I'm not unhappy about getting it in, 9's and A hi fd's call a ton from these passive scared pussies. This is 100nl people, people are pussies and passive as shit.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I think versus good players this is more of a c/c but in this situation I c/r like everytime. Yeah, ofc it sucks kind of when he threebets and gets it in, the 5% of the time it happens. And even then, I'm not unhappy about getting it in, 9's and A hi fd's call a ton from these passive scared pussies. This is 100nl people, people are pussies and passive as shit.
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Sir Pawnalot
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 668
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Phew, thought I was a spewtard for thinking this was standard C/R.
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A foolish man learns nothing from his mistakes.
A smart man learns only from his own mistakes.
A wise man learns from his own mistakes, and those of the smart man and the fool.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Come on man
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GatorJH
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: HotLanta
Posts: 3,179
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how do people find these threads taht are like a year old?
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Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,322
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by GatorJH
how do people find these threads taht are like a year old?
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My suspicion is they Google a particular situation.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Searching for a particular poster
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people just don't give you credit on paired flops and spew, so I would ship if I c/r and got 3b
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($86.55)
MP ($117.05)
CO ($100)
Hero (Button) ($113.60)
SB ($97.50)
BB ($130.10)
Preflop: Hero is Button with J , 10
1 fold, MP bets $3.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $3.50, 2 folds
Flop: ($8.50) 10, 10, K (2 players)
MP bets $5, Hero raises to $14, MP raises to $33, Hero raises to $110.10 (All-In), 1 fold
Total pot: $74.50 | Rake: $3
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I like c/c wayyyy more then c/r or b/c on this flop
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