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Ash256
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07-23-2007, 02:57 AM
Post subject: Missed overs being donked
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Whilst I think my big pot game is good I get the feeling my small-medium pot game sucks balls.
iPoker 6-handed 50NL. In the 3 orbits or so I've been there, I'm getting the feeling that Villain is a bit retarded.. He's 47/15/3.
100bb eff
Hero has :Ac::Kh:
2 folds, I make it $3 in MP, everyone folds apart from Villain who calls from the BB.
Flop:   
Villain bets $5
Hero makes it $15 to go
Standard?
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snowbird4life
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 246
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Seems standard. Donks do this to me all the time. Some even bet $1, while others bet $10. I raise them almost always, and they fold probably 90 percent of the time.
Obv if he raises you can fold, but the problem is if he just calls... then what? What if you hit your a/k on the turn, then what? bleh
Also, jw is this 50nl? The amounts seem more like it is 100nl...
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by snowbird4life
Also, jw is this 50nl? The amounts seem more like it is 100nl...
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Yea, at peak time there's so many flop monkeys 6x can be standard, although I have been known to go for 15x if there's an especially juicy 94/10 to my right.
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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This is my typical line against most players; however, the biggest thing you need to do is take a note on how the react and what sort of board they did this on, etc. Then if it happens again, see how the respond and adjust your note of them accordingly.
While I would say that raising here is my standard play, Im not sure its best, or at least, Im not sure how to continue after here. The biggest problem I have with this line is when they simply call the raise and check a seemingly blank turn. Most often I would imagine that they have something like a FD or mid-PP, but Im not always sure if they are going to fold it. It also sucks when they call the raise and then again make that same small bet. Do we just keep raising? Call because of pot odds? How does everybody else continue with the hand if their raise is simply called?
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Aight then..
Villain calls the flop raise, turn is  .
Villain checks.
Hero shoves for pretty much a PSB.
Opinions?
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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yesss
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Numbr2intheWorld
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07-23-2007, 06:51 PM
Post subject: Re: Missed overs being donked
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#7 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
Standard?
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nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooo
Quote:
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Hero shoves for pretty much a PSB.
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nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooo
You shouldn't make marginal plays like this when you don't know what his flop lead means. It's safe to just fold the flop if you want, and that's probably what you should do. Calling is marginal but hard when you're not sure what this lead means.
And i'd like you to explain to me why you push the turn. I think it's bad, i'd like to hear your logic though.
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snowbird4life
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 246
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I'm not sure about pushing the turn.
While the flop raise may not be "standard" the reason i usually raise the flop bet is because its often a steal bet at these levels. 90% of the time this happens to me, whether it is $1 or $10, the donks are usually trying to steal the pot right then. The reason i usually reraise is more so they get the message to stop doing it and that i actually have a hand, if i just keep folding, their going to keep abusing it and just keep betting out on ever flop i raise preflop in position which will be pretty annoying.
Like i said in my previous post, the problem with all this is what to do when he just calls... by doing this you put yourself in a bad situation when this occurs. I don't like the shove because his calls usually indicate he his holding something. If hes holding the case 6, a 7, a pp etc. I think theres a good chance hes on a flush draw or something like 89 but im not sure a push here is good.
I think heroes logic for pushing the turn would be everything but the case 6 or a 7 is folding, and even if he is called by the 7, a river a/k would still save him.
I think i like a check behind here, and call any reasonable river bet that isn't a diamond.
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Ash256
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07-23-2007, 09:21 PM
Post subject: Re: Missed overs being donked
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#9 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
And i'd like you to explain to me why you push the turn. I think it's bad, i'd like to hear your logic though.
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He can't call with the 88-TT kinda range or a 7, cause I think his flop bet could well be a stupid feeler bet. And we have 7 outs if he's dumb enough to call with a random boat.. basically what snowbird said. And whilst a 6 is fairly possible, I think someone at this level would prolly c/c the flop with it.
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Trikflow77
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: im so asian
Posts: 1,460
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dont bluff someone that is likely to have a full house even if its a weak one. Your fold eq is shot here, the only thing they are folding is a draw.
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pokerroomace
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 783
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trikflow77
dont bluff someone that is likely to have a full house even if its a weak one. Your fold eq is shot here, the only thing they are folding is a draw.
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agreed. he's not folding an overpair or a 7. he probably calls with 22-55 too.
pushing is horrible. all it achieves is that if he is holding 89 he has to pay to draw out on you, but way too often he calls and is way ahead.
also his flop bet isn't small. it is a good sized bet. i don't hate the flop raise. but once he's called i slow down and just check the hand down. if he bets then fold.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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07-24-2007, 12:26 AM
Post subject: Re: Missed overs being donked
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#12 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
cause I think his flop bet could well be a stupid feeler bet.
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I agree that this is probably not a 6, but that's a probably. I think that you probably don't see pairs here from donks here that often, but who knows. This guy plays how he plays, you don't know what his lead could mean, you don't know what his flop call tells you, you don't know if he'll lay down 88-TT, or even 55-22 (he probably won't).
Don't try to play guessing games with "feel." Feel can help in some positions, but don't make it the basis of a big play, because it's going to get you in big trouble.
Also, as Trik said, almost never bluff the donkey's.
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