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Messin at 400nl

  
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 10-05-2008, 02:01 AM     Post subject: Messin at 400nl #1 (permalink)  
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 I've been downswinging really big so I'm grindin 2/4 for a bit. Jschalach is a guy ive played a lot, he's 15/12 really low threebet and in general pretty straight forward but he's not bad really, just very tight preflop. He probably thinks im a guy who is tight preflop but kind of spewy and decent.

Pretty much I think his threebet range is AK/JJ+ but I know I can really efficiently bluff him on very specific flops and he'll check down AK a decent amount so I'm just calling all pp's here and shoving QQ+ preflop, though I'm sure he doesn't outrule me calling with AA-KK, sc's and AK/AQ.

Pretty much yeah, he has KK/QQ like 95% of the time. I'm kind of torn between just folding the river, betting turn and betting river, or this:

PokerStars Game #20933379877: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/10/04 21:30:00 ET
Table 'Merga IV' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: BLACKICE781 ($405.70 in chips)
Seat 2: Jschlach ($839.35 in chips)
Seat 3: heybude ($374 in chips)
Seat 4: LA DEMONIA ($364.40 in chips)
Seat 6: jslots14 ($295 in chips)
BLACKICE781: posts small blind $2
Jschlach: posts big blind $4
KOTSpoker: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heybude [Js Jc]
heybude: raises $8 to $12
LA DEMONIA: folds
jslots14: folds
BLACKICE781: folds
Jschlach: raises $32 to $44
heybude: calls $32
*** FLOP *** [As 9c 4d]
Jschlach: checks
heybude: checks
*** TURN *** [As 9c 4d] [9h]
Jschlach: checks
heybude: checks
*** RIVER *** [As 9c 4d 9h] [9s]
Jschlach: bets $60
heybude: raises $270 to $330 and is all-in
Jschlach:
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Deanglow
Old 10-05-2008, 02:46 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 Why not try and be more credible on flop/turn?
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 10-05-2008, 03:24 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanglow
Why not try and be more credible on flop/turn?
I can see this player checking both AA and AK on this flop, thats why.
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meeloche
Old 10-05-2008, 04:22 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 I don't think I'd put you on AA or AK after you check the turn. Honestly this looks a lot like what you actually have. If you want him to fold KK/QQ I think you have a better chance of doing that by betting turn and river.



 
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swiggidy
Old 10-05-2008, 04:35 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meeloche
If you want him to fold KK/QQ I think you have a better chance of doing that by betting turn and river.
What I was thinking
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EzDuzIt
Old 10-05-2008, 05:13 AM #6 (permalink)  
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id rather bet turn and river but i like this too.
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UG
Old 10-05-2008, 05:44 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EzDuzIt
id rather bet turn and river but I like this too
I agree with betting the turn *and* river, but I don't really like just betting the river. I mean, it's probably ok, but at the same time your line really screams bullshit and everything in his supposed range beats you, hopefully he didn't hear the bullshit screams.


 
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 10-05-2008, 11:18 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 you think anyone is dumb enough to fold an A here against you?
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Fnord
Old 10-05-2008, 11:49 AM #9 (permalink)  
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What do you think about BLACKICE781?
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griffey24
Old 10-05-2008, 01:43 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massimo
you think anyone is dumb enough to fold an A here against you?
If the shove was a bit bigger relative to the pot than in this scenario, I think some people can level themselves into folding an A here thinking they are at best chopping.

It would definitely fold QQ/KK going for thin-value though I'd imagine.

Like others said though, I'd prefer a bet turn, shove river line. Just seems more believable.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 10-05-2008, 03:19 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massimo
you think anyone is dumb enough to fold an A here against you?
So you feel like this is a spot where people bluff a lot? Or just me? Because if its me versus anyone else im folding KK/QQ.
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 10-05-2008, 03:45 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 I mean if you think this is exactly KK or QQ i'd rather minraise.
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nutsinho
Old 10-05-2008, 04:30 PM #13 (permalink)  
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 this is straight donating. have you ever seen anyone use this line for value?
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dalecooper
Old 10-05-2008, 04:54 PM #14 (permalink)  
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I feel like he only folds this if he's a real coward ("plausible line be damned, I just don't want to lose mah moniez!") or if he levels the shit out of himself. Therefore I don't like it.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 10-05-2008, 07:45 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsinho
this is straight donating. have you ever seen anyone use this line for value?
I mean my logic was who the hell takes this line as a bluff either?

I think as I look back I think the best play was to either go bet/bet on turn and river or c/f all the way. He did end up folding after like 10 seconds of deliberation, I ofc showed and he said "damn I almost called" and I jokingly remarked "You had better than JJ and FOLDED!?"
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Alexos
Old 10-06-2008, 04:50 AM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massimo
I mean if you think this is exactly KK or QQ i'd rather minraise.
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Genitruc
Old 10-06-2008, 07:41 AM #17 (permalink)  
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 the standard logic is "don't bluff him until you have a read that he can fold and you can easily rep a big hand"

I think more profitable thinking vs standard/weak regs at these stakes should be "don't hesitate to ship until you have a read that they're capable of making big calls"

assuming it doesn't tilt you like a monkey the times you do get called.
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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silu73
Old 10-07-2008, 01:56 AM #18 (permalink)  
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I don't like this hand at all. I agree with your reasoning but I think you made your move a street to late.
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bigspenda73
Old 10-07-2008, 04:09 AM #19 (permalink)  
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 I know it's 5-handed, but I mean, isn't a nits 3bet range in the blinds vs. an UTG open like ridiculously tight?

I like minraise
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