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Lots of maniez in preflop

  
 
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Genitruc
Old 06-05-2010, 06:09 AM     Post subject: Lots of maniez in preflop #1 (permalink)  
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 Soul-crushing "downswing" since november '09 (lol can you even call that a downswing?), every spot is stupid, every flip is impossible to win, etc etc etc

villain is a weak donk 56/28 :

***** Hand History for Game 2210693674 ***** (Boss)
$200.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, June 05, 03:22:45 ET 2010
Table Bad Beat TH 18 (Real Money)

Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: porter@ ( $20.70 USD )
Seat 2: gusanito85 ( $237.80 USD )
Seat 4: HERO ( $238.30 USD )
Seat 6: guess23 ( $302.20 USD )
gusanito85 posts small blind [$1.00 USD].

HERO posts big blind [$2.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO
guess23 folds
porter@ raises [$20.70 USD]
gusanito85 calls [$19.70 USD]
HERO raises [$65.27 USD]
gusanito85 calls [$46.57 USD]
** Dealing Flop **
gusanito85 bets [$32.00 USD]

HERO calls [$32.00 USD]
** Dealing Turn **
gusanito85 bets [$138.53 USD]
HERO
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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pocketfours
Old 06-05-2010, 06:38 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 His line is pretty lol, but it still makes way more sense with something that beats you than with something that doesn't, right?
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griffey24
Old 06-05-2010, 07:27 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 I'm very tempted to call this. Line doesn't make much sense to me, and we block KQ's even.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
 
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DaMachine
Old 06-05-2010, 08:27 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 At first I think you should raise more preflop, to 85$-90$. Decision will be easier postflop with your QQ. If you raise that amount there will be 200$ in the pot and 150$ left in your stack and Villains.

And you have an easy call on the turn imo.

(Holy sh*t what a great avatar griffey24!)

(That was my first post!
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griffey24
Old 06-05-2010, 09:59 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Yah I agree, I'd probably always make it at least $80 pre.

haha glad you like the avatar. Its sad, I have avatars off so they don't show up at work... can't even see the hotness haha
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
 
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DaMachine
Old 06-05-2010, 10:21 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 Have to find a great one too. A sexy girl that does not look like a prostitute would be perfect! Maybe I'll steal yours haha
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Genitruc
Old 06-05-2010, 11:14 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 if we call or fold what are we putting villain on?
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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DaMachine
Old 06-05-2010, 11:25 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 if we raise bigger play flop folding is not an option postflop imo. If we raise 85$ the pot will be close to 200$ and be have 150$ left. We have better than 2 to 1 here.
And i think a K is not the biggest part of his range bc:

1/ there is already on the board
2/ he would have played aggressively preflop with AA, KK and probably AK too

Small part of his range is KQ, KJ, 88
Bigger part of his range is JJ, TT. 99, 77 and bluffs.

So as he has a worst hand that ours more often than a best one, we have the odds to call here.

Everybody agrees with the thought process here?
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Genitruc
Old 06-05-2010, 11:40 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 the above thought process makes plenty of sense.

only thing i can t understand is why is he betting 2 streets with 99 TT JJ?
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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griffey24
Old 06-05-2010, 11:40 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 DaMachine, I think you're putting too many reasonable pairs in his range that might just pot control instead of play like this. I'd imagine JJ/TT would just c/c a couple streets.

I'd say his range can have a lot of weird stuff. Stuff we beat might be like AJ (AJhh), AQ, AT (AThh), 45,67, 56.

We lose to KQ (discounted given our hand), KJ, 78, 88, and AK sometimes.

I guess with my ranges, it's probably a fold.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 25.974% 25.97% 00.00% 240 0.00 { QcQh }
Hand 1: 74.026% 74.03% 00.00% 684 0.00 { 8d8h, 8h8s, AdKd, AsKs, AsQs, AhJh, AhTh, KQs, KcJc, KdJd, KsTs, 8d7d, 7c6c, 6c5c, 5c4c, 5s4s, KQo }
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
 
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DaMachine
Old 06-05-2010, 11:52 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 Actually he put a lot of pairs and ace high hand in his range because he called the shortstack that went shoved preflop. And i dont see why anyone would call an all in shove with no implied odds with some SCs. Thats why i tend to think he has some AJ AT or some pps.

And about him leading small, you guys know already that in those big pots fishes do some fancy moves, he might be scared of you bluffing him or something.

I dont know maybe you guys are right... What is sure is that if i call in that kinda spot and he shows me some KT I break something 2 min after
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Genitruc
Old 06-06-2010, 12:12 AM #12 (permalink)  
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 i wish you had been railing me at the time machine

i folded and villain took down the pot with JJ
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Genitruc
Old 06-06-2010, 12:15 AM #13 (permalink)  
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 but wtv i guess this is what happens to hand-reading when for 35k hands straight every time i call in this spot villain turned a set or flatted KJs pre. i need help and i just don t know where to turn, what to do.
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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griffey24
Old 06-06-2010, 12:39 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genitruc View Post
but wtv i guess this is what happens to hand-reading when for 35k hands straight every time i call in this spot villain turned a set or flatted KJs pre. i need help and i just don t know where to turn, what to do.
The safe play during mega death runbad would be to just fold the two hands you have posted right now...It's questionable to call and close to 0EV if not marginally -EV to be calling in these spots. So just do the lower variance decision and fold. Causes less headaches!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
 
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DaMachine
Old 06-06-2010, 12:44 AM #15 (permalink)  
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 Sorry about that my friend. Have you tried to stop for awhile like taking a break? Its surely a shi**y hand, Its easy when on the forum but in the heat after getting cooled a lot of times, I guess I would have folded too to be honest!

Have you tried to play lower? Just regain confidence?
Ill glad to help you but tbh im a bad player
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Genitruc
Old 06-06-2010, 02:04 AM #16 (permalink)  
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 i have moved from 10/20 down to .5-1, mixed in plo, played more tables, fewer tables, longer sessions, shorter sessions, implemented stop-losses, taken long breaks, short breaks, no breaks... it s just an unending mind-blowing sequence of losing sessions over about 100k hands. i can usually put in about 50-60k per month and i ve played a total of about 130k hands total since november.

nothing works.
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 06-07-2010, 12:37 AM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours View Post
His line is pretty lol, but it still makes way more sense with something that beats you than with something that doesn't, right?
Same thoughts here as well
Check out the new blog!!!
 
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DaMachine
Old 06-07-2010, 12:53 AM #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genitruc View Post
i have moved from 10/20 down to .5-1, mixed in plo, played more tables, fewer tables, longer sessions, shorter sessions, implemented stop-losses, taken long breaks, short breaks, no breaks... it s just an unending mind-blowing sequence of losing sessions over about 100k hands. i can usually put in about 50-60k per month and i ve played a total of about 130k hands total since november.

nothing works.
sh*t!
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oskar
Old 06-07-2010, 01:52 AM #19 (permalink)  
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oskar has a spectacular aura aboutoskar has a spectacular aura aboutoskar has a spectacular aura about
 Dunno, I think the hand is kind of trivial. As played I prolly fold turn so I don't go on mega tilt when he shows me K6. The more interesting part is handling the downswing. I like to immediately move down to a level where I have a massive amount of buy-ins and can crush everybody [x] And put in lots of volume to iron out variance [ ]
100k loosing/break-even will happen to pretty much everyone at some point as I don't need to tell you. It's just way more soul crushing if it lasts for seven months than it is if it lasts for two. So there would be my main advice: go back to putting in lots of hours and grind it out.
The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
 
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Genitruc
Old 06-07-2010, 02:03 AM #20 (permalink)  
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 bah no need to rewrite my blog in this thread but that s def good advice; a big reason for the lack of volume has been mononucleosis + viral meningitis that put me completely out of commission for 2 months, then a 9k downswing in 35k hands at nl100 and 200 playing weak regs and whales since coming back may 10th. for the time being, volume and stakes aren t the problem, it s just impossible to win.

last night i had a 4-1 chiplead in a donkement w 6 ppl left and my internet connection died on me. i m out of the country and was unable to contact anybody to navigate... this shit just doesn t end.

*end blog post*
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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oskar
Old 06-07-2010, 02:49 AM #21 (permalink)  
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 Ugh. But you're fine now? meningitis cured and everything?
Having played lots on boss I would estimate that you're at least 3k behind aiev in may according to your graph... In case you're worried about becoming a vegetable You're really running like ass.
Assuming that you're cured - being out of the country and everything: At least you sucked out big time on god. Can't put a price tag on that.
The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
 
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Genitruc
Old 06-07-2010, 03:42 AM #22 (permalink)  
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 haha thanks for the encouragement oskar, and ya, you re right, running bad over 100k hands is nothing significant to complain about, i have an awesome life and i m close to 100% after the really bad health scare.

just out of curiosity, how do you manage to estimate the ev difference? Are you just guesstimating? I definitely believe i m running way under ev but it d be nice to have some measured sort of way of guessing how much/little.

Fwiw here's since nov '09 on my laptop (the toaster i m travelling with) :




and since starting back up in may :
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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oskar
Old 06-07-2010, 08:43 PM #23 (permalink)  
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 Just estimating... number of hands standard swings and so on. I can't compare the numbers now because I haven't played that much there this year and I have started a new DB on January 1st.
My aiev used to be approximately twice of what I have actually made and I ran 3-5ptbb/100. So if you correct it by 3-5ptbb in the opposite direction you should be getting there. Obviously depends on how often you're all-in before the river.
BTW neat boss trick is to not bet all-in ever. Leave the villain with at least 1bb and hope he shoves so you can see his hand.
The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
 
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Genitruc
Old 06-08-2010, 01:15 AM #24 (permalink)  
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 cool thx
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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griffey24
Old 06-08-2010, 08:17 PM #25 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oskar View Post
BTW neat boss trick is to not bet all-in ever. Leave the villain with at least 1bb and hope he shoves so you can see his hand.
heh I like this, lot's of effort though!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
 
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DaMachine
Old 06-08-2010, 09:38 PM #26 (permalink)  
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 Hahha
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Halv
Old 06-08-2010, 10:55 PM #27 (permalink)  
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 boss trick aka dwarfman bet is cool until you disconnect or misclick fold to his shove.

First music vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFerARdGW04
Free stream of different song here: http://www.nrk.no/urort/artist/wellfear ('Lytt'/play button on right side)
 
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Genitruc
Old 06-08-2010, 11:20 PM #28 (permalink)  
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 ya lol that once happened to me with a set and FD on turn 250bb s deep in rr pot (misclick fold for 10$ more into 800$ pot).

not a possibility i particularly want to open myself up to.
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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gabe
Old 06-09-2010, 07:48 PM #29 (permalink)  
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his range is too big to fold
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UnbelievableJeff
Old 06-27-2010, 12:52 AM #30 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalvSame View Post
boss trick aka dwarfman bet is cool until you disconnect or misclick fold to his shove.
What is a dwarfman bet?
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kmind
Old 06-28-2010, 12:06 AM #31 (permalink)  
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 It's a "I'm a fucking pussy that steals money because I'm a lonely douchebag in need of attention" bet.
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sauce123
Old 07-04-2010, 05:08 PM #32 (permalink)  
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first, shove pre like always. theres 40$ in the pot if i read the HH right. i might make this small raise with AA or KK but likely nothing else.

as played dont fold that board no matter what he does unless he types 'I have K4cc, I swear on my baby daughter's life' in the chatbox
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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