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IowaSkinsFan
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08-31-2007, 03:35 PM
Post subject: Lolz call right?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Opp is generally passive, opens 90% of hands from the BU.
POKERSTARS GAME #11791793189: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) - 2007/08/31 - 11:29:39 (ET)
Table 'Hera II' 2-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: heybude ($228.50 in chips)
Seat 2: AssoNero ($300.25 in chips)
AssoNero: posts small blind $1
heybude: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heybude [As 9s]
AssoNero: raises $4 to $6
heybude: calls $4
*** FLOP *** [Ts Ah Ad]
heybude: checks
AssoNero: bets $6
heybude: calls $6
*** TURN *** [Ts Ah Ad] [9h]
heybude: checks
AssoNero: checks
*** RIVER *** [Ts Ah Ad 9h] [Jh]
heybude: bets $16
AssoNero: raises $272.25 to $288.25 and is all-in
heybude:
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,548
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may seem offtopic: was that his normal cbet size?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
may seem offtopic: was that his normal cbet size?
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yes and that is very important good question. It was his standard cbet size.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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lolz call, lolz pump fist, lolz cooler
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AHiltz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Coldbrook, NS
Posts: 1,589
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laughs and says "arrrrrr yin baby"
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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id come on my keyboard...then call and chop off my cock if i lose.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,548
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You guys really aren't looking at the range of hands he takes this line with.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
You guys really aren't looking at the range of hands he takes this line with.
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I was thinking TT, 99, JJ, AK, AQ, flush,straight all sometimes at least (a lot of HU donkeys)
AT and AJ i lose.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,548
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AT was the number 1 hand I'm putting him on with this line, then I realized a bd flush came in and I thought, meh, we cannot fold.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
AT was the number 1 hand I'm putting him on with this line, then I realized a bd flush came in and I thought, meh, we cannot fold.
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That was pretty much my reasoning.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
AT was the number 1 hand I'm putting him on with this line, then I realized a bd flush came in and I thought, meh, we cannot fold.
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Odd you say that, i thought KQ, and even on this board HU i think KQ is teh nuts,
taking a second look, min hand he prob does this with is a flush and def a boat. We dont beat any other boats and you dont see many HU players bet a flush/straight for this much value here and that strong, so this could very well be a very sick looking fold but because its HU and value betting so many nut type hands has to be done here i think i talk myself into a call.
Folding here and being right is sick, esp when our hand is so strong, and he could bet like this with so many really good hands we beat.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,548
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lol we do beat a few boats, TT/JJ
Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not advocating a fold, I'm just not fist pumping/cumming on my keyboard as I call.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Call and make money.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
lol we do beat a few boats, TT/JJ
Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not advocating a fold, I'm just not fist pumping/cumming on my keyboard as I call.
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Yeah my nut wasn't quite there when he showed AT and then it went all limp.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,548
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Whoops, yep, I had this longwinded post written earlier about how it had to be AT but then I deleted it cuz I thought I'd just get flamed.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Out of interest, why not 3bet pre? We lack position, but fuck him, we beat his range, no?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
Out of interest, why not 3bet pre? We lack position, but fuck him, we beat his range, no?
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Read my HU thought post, but he wasnt calling a lot of threebets so we're actually behind his calling range.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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This is just as easily JJ, in fact JJ makes more sense.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
Out of interest, why not 3bet pre? We lack position, but fuck him, we beat his range, no?
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Read my HU thought post, but he wasnt calling a lot of threebets so we're actually behind his calling range. |
lol
Shows how much I need to learn about poker, pretty obvious answer there. :P
So we're effectively maximizing our equity vs. his range by not threebetting.. so even though we've got what looks like a sexy top 15% style hand, we're best off playing against a very wide range that we beat marginally (60/40) than a narrow range that has us beat (40/60).. nice.
Also, if he folds way too much postflop, is it more +EV to take the bum-end of the range equity in exchange for fold equity?
With regards to the hand: shit man, awesome excercise in thinking.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
So we're effectively maximizing our equity vs. his range by not threebetting.. so even though we've got what looks like a sexy top 15% style hand, we're best off playing against a very wide range that we beat marginally (60/40) than a narrow range that has us beat (40/60).. nice.
Also, if he folds way too much postflop, is it more +EV to take the bum-end of the range equity in exchange for fold equity?
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If I had 86s would you even be mentioning about preflop? Probably not, but in fact that hand is a threebet a lot against this type of player. AT has very little value against his range and there's no doubt if we see a flop OOP im -EV for the rest of the hand. Calling pre we're obviously +EV against his range and have a lot of value when we flop and A or a T. Threebet pot we have no value in an A or a T.
Considering he's calling about 20% of my threebets its +EV to threebet any hand (obviously, if I did this his call % would go way up), but its not +EV in the whole strategy of the match.
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arkana
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,109
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
Out of interest, why not 3bet pre? We lack position, but fuck him, we beat his range, no?
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Read my HU thought post, but he wasnt calling a lot of threebets so we're actually behind his calling range. |
Just because we are behind his 3bet calling range does not mean we shouldn't 3 bet him, it just means we have to tighten up postflop if he calls.
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arkana
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,109
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
So we're effectively maximizing our equity vs. his range by not threebetting.. so even though we've got what looks like a sexy top 15% style hand, we're best off playing against a very wide range that we beat marginally (60/40) than a narrow range that has us beat (40/60).. nice.
Also, if he folds way too much postflop, is it more +EV to take the bum-end of the range equity in exchange for fold equity?
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If I had 86s would you even be mentioning about preflop? Probably not, but in fact that hand is a threebet a lot against this type of player. AT has very little value against his range and there's no doubt if we see a flop OOP im -EV for the rest of the hand. Calling pre we're obviously +EV against his range and have a lot of value when we flop and A or a T. Threebet pot we have no value in an A or a T.
Considering he's calling about 20% of my threebets its +EV to threebet any hand (obviously, if I did this his call % would go way up), but its not +EV in the whole strategy of the match. |
What you are saying is that calling AT pf has a higher expected value then 3 betting with it, but your original reply made it sound like 3 betting with AT would be -EV because we would be behind his calling range which is not the case.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Well yeah but as I said threebetting anything in a vacum versus this guy is +EV but its stupid to not consider the strategic elements of it. In the grand scheme of the match i dont think threebetting AT here is good and would think even in a vacum its more +EV to call it.
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