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leaks in my game?

  
 
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vaks
Old 10-10-2007, 05:07 PM     Post subject: leaks in my game? #1 (permalink)  
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well after like 45k hands im down 1.8k or something, I believe I have a huge problem with tilt but also obviously i suck at poker also...
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EzDuzIt
Old 10-10-2007, 06:23 PM #2 (permalink)  
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raise more in position, steal blinds more often.

i think it would help you better to post some hands from bigger pots.
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KWilnor
Old 10-10-2007, 06:35 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Your Won$SD% is low considering how tight you play and how low a percent of times you go to showdown.

I think a lot of winning players have a WTSD% of around 28% and Won$atSD of around 52%

I suspect you are losing large pots by overplaying large pairs and paying off sets/flushes/2pairs etc
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Ash256
Old 10-10-2007, 07:02 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 I think you should tighten up UTG.

Also get pokerev (www.pokerevsoftware.com) and see how you're running in allin situations.
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zook
Old 10-10-2007, 07:41 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Your pre-flop and position stats are fine. You could tighten up a little UTG and loosen up a little in the CO and BTN, but honestly, your stats are fine and pre-flop isn't that important anyway.

Your leaks have to be post-flop. You say you have a tilt problem, and that could EASILY turn a 3ptbb/100 winner into a 1ptbb/100 loser over 45k hands. Your aggression frequencies are pretty high on all streets, especially the river. Your aggression is helping you win a high percentage of pots when you see the flop, but you're not winning enough at showdown. This leads me to believe that you're playing against a lot of nitty opponents, but instead of shutting down to resistance, you're trying to bluff them out of pots and make hero calls with marginal hands. I envision you as a player who wins a ton of small pots but then gives that $ away in a big pot or two. Am I close? Obviously you could also be running bad, but I doubt that's the whole story.

Post-flop discipline can be tough to come by. I suggest making a list of things you want to do to stay disciplined (I made a post about it awhile ago) and either keep it open in a window on your screen, or put up sticky notes on the edges of your monitor. GL.
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Miffed22001
Old 10-10-2007, 07:48 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 i wish my positional stats looked like that (well they do now, but they didnt when i ran like that!)
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vaks
Old 10-10-2007, 10:07 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zook
Your pre-flop and position stats are fine. You could tighten up a little UTG and loosen up a little in the CO and BTN,
could you give me some more examples of how to widen my range from the CO and button? like start raising more suited connectors??
and also what should i be throwing away UTG? AJo?

This leads me to believe that you're playing against a lot of nitty opponents, but instead of shutting down to resistance, you're trying to bluff them out of pots and make hero calls with marginal hands. I envision you as a player who wins a ton of small pots but then gives that $ away in a big pot or two. Am I close? [/quote]

honestly I dont know if I should super terrified or not, but I think you figured me out exactly, atleast I kinda feel that I misplay a lot of big hands, and I know im way tooo aggressive, just not sure how to overcome and fix this.
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zook
Old 10-10-2007, 10:29 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaks
could you give me some more examples of how to widen my range from the CO and button? like start raising more suited connectors?? and also what should i be throwing away UTG? AJo?
You can raise all kinds of things from the CO and BTN... suited connectors, suited gappers, offsuit connectors, who cares. But I'm not sure you should worry about widening your pre-flop range if you're still trying to control post-flop spew. From UTG you can dump stuff like ATo/KTo/KJo/QJo/QTo/low pp's if people aren't calling behind with worse broadways. You may be dumping most of those already though, 12% utg is pretty tight. Seriously, your pre-flop stats are fine, don't spend time worrying about them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vaks
honestly I dont know if I should super terrified or not, but I think you figured me out exactly, atleast I kinda feel that I misplay a lot of big hands, and I know im way tooo aggressive, just not sure how to overcome and fix this.
Start giving your opponents more credit. Start looking for places to check/fold instead of c-bet (low flops, connected two-tone flops). Don't be afraid to c-bet and give up against a lot of players. Don't stack off with one pair hands without a read and a good reason. Believe big bets from unknowns. Be patient. Try to be the guy who's the most aggro at the table but almost always has the goods when it goes to showdown. Post more hands in this forum.
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vaks
Old 10-10-2007, 10:30 PM #9 (permalink)  
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I guess heres a few of my HHs, mostly of me just being a retard.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 4 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

UTG: $15.85
Hero (BTN): $73.55
SB: $42.35
BB: $20.30

Pre-Flop: A Q dealt to Hero (BTN)
[color:red]UTG raises to $0.50[/color], [color:red]Hero raises to $1.85[/color], SB folds, UTG calls $1.35

Flop: ($4.05) K K 2 (2 Players)
[color:red]UTG bets $2.25[/color], Hero calls $2.25

Turn: ($8.55) K (2 Players)
[color:red]UTG bets $4.50[/color], Hero calls $4.50

River: ($17.55) 9 (2 Players)
[color:red]UTG bets $1.25[/color], [color:red]Hero raises to $21.30[/color], UTG calls $6 and is All-In

Results: $32.05 Pot ($1.60 Rake)
UTG showed 8 8 (a full house, Kings full of Eights) and WON $30.45 (+$14.60 NET)
Hero showed A Q (three of a kind, Kings) and LOST (-$15.85 NET)

.....
i thought this was a good bluff cause i believe him to have AK, AQ, AJ, etc.
but I guess i shoulda bet turn, checking turn is probably horrible.... but another example of how my aggro fucks me over
Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

UTG: $111.55
MP: $100
CO: $97.50
BTN: $160.30
SB: $121.45
Hero (BB): $149.25

Pre-Flop: Q J dealt to Hero (BB)
2 folds, [color:red]CO raises to $3.50[/color], BTN folds, [color:red]SB raises to $8[/color], Hero calls $7, CO calls $4.50

Flop: ($24) 3 T 9 (3 Players)
[color:red]SB bets $17[/color], Hero calls $17, CO folds

Turn: ($58) 4 (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($58) 9 (2 Players)
SB checks, [color:red]Hero bets $36[/color], [color:red]SB raises to $96.45 and is All-In[/color], Hero folds

Results: $130 Pot ($3 Rake)
SB mucked and WON $127 (+$66 NET)

...
value raise gone bad?
Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 2 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $325.60
SB: $108

Pre-Flop: 8 J dealt to Hero (BB)
[color:red]SB raises to $3[/color], Hero calls $2

Flop: ($6) 8 9 6 (2 Players)
[color:red]Hero bets $4[/color], [color:red]SB raises to $19[/color], [color:red]Hero raises to $63[/color], [color:red]SB raises to $105 and is All-In[/color], Hero calls $42

Turn: ($216) Q (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($216) Q (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $216 Pot ($0.50 Rake)
Hero showed 8 J (two pair, Queens and Eights) and LOST (-$108 NET)
SB showed 6 9 (two pair, Queens and Nines) and WON $215.50 (+$107.50 NET)

... im uncertain of what to do about this hand
Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BTN: $53
SB: $209.10
BB: $302.50
Hero (UTG): $113
MP: $99.80
CO: $99.35

Pre-Flop: 6 6 dealt to Hero (UTG)
[color:red]Hero raises to $3.50[/color], MP calls $3.50, CO folds, BTN calls $3.50, 2 folds

Flop: ($12) 4 2 3 (3 Players)
[color:red]Hero bets $11[/color], MP calls $11, BTN folds

Turn: ($34) Q (2 Players)
Hero checks, [color:red]MP bets $28[/color], [color:red]Hero raises to $60[/color], [color:red]MP raises to $85.30 and is All-In[/color], Hero folds

Results: $154 Pot ($3 Rake)
MP mucked and WON $151 (+$76.50 NET)
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vaks
Old 10-10-2007, 10:33 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zook
Try to be the guy who's the most aggro at the table but almost always has the goods when it goes to showdown. Post more hands in this forum.
Do you think you could post some hands that would use a good example of this? like good flops to cbet/give up, or to check/fold, etc.. cause im obviously unaware.
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Ash256
Old 10-10-2007, 10:36 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 1: Prolly fold flop (though a float is ok), definitely fold turn
2: My god, fold pre please
3: Why are you stacking off with middle pair?
4: Tough spot, maybe b/f turn.. definitely don't c/r though.
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zook
Old 10-10-2007, 10:36 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Fancy play syndrome. You can beat these games without ever bluffing beyond a c-bet and semibluffs. Seriously. With some game/seat selection you can beat them for a good rate.
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Ash256
Old 10-10-2007, 10:39 PM #13 (permalink)  
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 Start thinking about ranges; your opponent's range, your range, your opponent's range for calling a shove, opponent's range for calling a halfpot bet, etc.
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zook
Old 10-10-2007, 10:53 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaks
good flops to cbet/give up or to check/fold
First, you should be c-betting a lot less oop. In position you can c-bet 90% when checked to, no problem, but oop you need to pay attention to the board and your opponent. Good boards to cbet bluff are rainbow, unconnected with one or more high cards. If the board's lacking one of those components, that's ok, but lacking two and you should strongly consider check/folding oop.

As for c-betting and giving up, that should be your default play. Second barreling should only come into the picture when you have some kind of read. That your opponent will float with an underpair or midpair but generally won't bluff raise, will chase draws, is capable of folding in medium to big pots. At these levels I don't think you'll run into enough of these players to make frequent second barrels profitable. Some of the regulars are capable of floating and laying down top pair, but if you have a spewy image it might not matter.
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 10-11-2007, 01:26 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zook
Fancy play syndrome. You can beat these games without ever bluffing beyond a c-bet and semibluffs. Seriously. With some game/seat selection you can beat them for a good rate.
QFT
 
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griffey24
Old 10-11-2007, 01:32 AM #16 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1 - Why are you turning your hand into a bluff on the river? You're not repping much, and he's not folding given pot odds. Just be glad he's giving you crazy pot odds on a call, and see if A high is good.

Hand 2 - How are you cold calling a 3-bet with only QJ, and you don't know what CO is gonna do behind you. FOLD PF! As played, he might put you on some slow played over pair so raise this flop, its as good as its gonna get.

Hand 3 - Fold PF again. Why are you bloating the pot on this flop? If you think you're ahead on the flop after the c/r, just flat call.

Hand 4 - After you're called on the flop, you could be behind. This is a good turn card to second barrel and make some better hands fold. Bet/fold
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vaks
Old 10-11-2007, 03:56 AM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash256
Also get pokerev (www.pokerevsoftware.com) and see how you're running in allin situations.
I dont really know much about pokerev or what it really means but here is the graph, and the second one is the luck graph so
also I appreciate all of the replies and what not, its given me a lot of hope, and hopefully within the next few months i can really improve my game and turn into a winning player





[/img]
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sauce123
Old 10-11-2007, 06:04 AM #18 (permalink)  
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vaks- ur running like absolute dogshit. seriously, this is probably a fair amnt of why ur losing.

at the same time all of the hands you posted were misplayed on one or more streets, many very, very badly. if you are always playing hands like this postflop then thats why ur getting smoked. however, ur preflop stats are so strong that it seems like u should still be beating the game. the main thing is ur flop AF is very low, id recommend folding instead of calling like in that AQ hand-obv.
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jyms
Old 10-11-2007, 08:31 AM #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zook
Start giving your opponents more credit. Start looking for places to check/fold instead of c-bet (low flops, connected two-tone flops). Don't be afraid to c-bet and give up against a lot of players. Don't stack off with one pair hands without a read and a good reason. Believe big bets from unknowns. Be patient. Try to be the guy who's the most aggro at the table but almost always has the goods when it goes to showdown. Post more hands in this forum.
Wow. This is me!

Zook You have me pegged. I have almost the exact same stats as vaks, maybe a little nittier. I have real problems with stacking off with TPTK to bad players. I always start off well at any table or new site and then when I get to a point of knowing Opponents suck I start to spew. I get too much in with TP hands, over estimate implied odds but most of all make too little on the hands I have that win at showdown compared to what I lose at showdown. I have said before that I have never knowingly laid down and overpair to a set, suer some have shown sets, but it was never my thought that" I better fold, I think he has a set" I would love to talk more about these thoughts.


vaks, here is an article that I think may help. It helps me wehnever i read it for a while then I go back to spew. See if it helps.
http://www.tommyangelo.com/articles/folding.htm
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Chopper
Old 10-11-2007, 02:13 PM #20 (permalink)  
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gr8 article, TJ.

novel concept: Folding pays the rent.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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bigspenda73
Old 10-11-2007, 02:20 PM #21 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms
Quote:
Originally Posted by zook
Start giving your opponents more credit. Start looking for places to check/fold instead of c-bet (low flops, connected two-tone flops). Don't be afraid to c-bet and give up against a lot of players. Don't stack off with one pair hands without a read and a good reason. Believe big bets from unknowns. Be patient. Try to be the guy who's the most aggro at the table but almost always has the goods when it goes to showdown. Post more hands in this forum.
Wow. This is me!

Zook You have me pegged. I have almost the exact same stats as vaks, maybe a little nittier. I have real problems with stacking off with TPTK to bad players. I always start off well at any table or new site and then when I get to a point of knowing Opponents suck I start to spew. I get too much in with TP hands, over estimate implied odds but most of all make too little on the hands I have that win at showdown compared to what I lose at showdown. I have said before that I have never knowingly laid down and overpair to a set, suer some have shown sets, but it was never my thought that" I better fold, I think he has a set" I would love to talk more about these thoughts.
Unless you have an explicit read that someone is capable of bluffing you really just have to sit back and determine their range for raising/betting big on certain board textures. Trust me, it's not that hard but you have to go through the correct thought process. We're all capable of breaking down someone's range to determine their likely holdings, it's just that we typically act too quickly and make rash decisions.
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zook
Old 10-11-2007, 05:01 PM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
vaks- ur running like absolute dogshit. seriously, this is probably a fair amnt of why ur losing.
Ummm... his poker ev graphs actually suggest he's not running bad at all. Maybe I'm reading them wrong but it looks like he's only won 600 more Sklansky bucks than real bucks and he's actually running above expectation in AI situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
if you are always playing hands like this postflop then thats why ur getting smoked. however, ur preflop stats are so strong that it seems like u should still be beating the game.
Are you serious? Pre-flop stats can make you a winning player despite post-flop spew?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
the main thing is ur flop AF is very low
3.3 is very low? wtf? Is this whole post a level?
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Old 10-11-2007, 05:27 PM #23 (permalink)  
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 Most of the time if you have strong preflop stats at 100nl or less you will be a winning player.

Yes you are right 3.3 isn't low idk what sauce is talking about.

As per running bad, I think he's refering to the 45% W$@SD% when the guy has a 24% WTSD%, that is horrific.
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badgers
Old 10-11-2007, 06:00 PM #24 (permalink)  
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Why has no-one said move down yet?

Just go down to $25 NL and sort out your post-flop play. The posted hands were played really badly, are these particularly bad hands or is this a fair reflection of your game? If the latter I serious suggest moving down before you lose more monies...
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jyms
Old 10-11-2007, 06:22 PM #25 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Unless you have an explicit read that someone is capable of bluffing you really just have to sit back and determine their range for raising/betting big on certain board textures. Trust me, it's not that hard but you have to go through the correct thought process. We're all capable of breaking down someone's range to determine their likely holdings, it's just that we typically act too quickly and make rash decisions.
What does it mean when I read your posts and actually hear your voice. one of us needs to take a break from Vent.
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Chopper
Old 10-11-2007, 08:49 PM #26 (permalink)  
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i saw much of the same things in the PT stats, but i wasnt alarmed by the AF as much as the rest of you.

the tighter you are, the easier it is to have/maintain a huge AF, right?

granted, OP is a 20 vpip, but who is generally more aggressive...a 15/7 with an AF of 3? or, a 65/30 with an AF of 2? shouldnt it be the latter?

my point is that it is easy to overplay hands post flop when you are only playing broadways, pp's, and some soooted stuff.

i dont think its all variance. i think its bad play in big pots. like was said, you may be the king of small pots and the jester of big ones...like i can be. or, you may also get "stack happy" from time to time, and try and take stacks too frequently with stuff that is not as strong as you may think.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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vaks
Old 10-12-2007, 08:50 AM #27 (permalink)  
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I think I get "stack happy" like you said and ill misjudge other peopls hands... but I also think a lot of times like some of the hands i posted is that I tilt, like its hard on me when i feel like im playing good poker, get it all in PF with KK, or QQ and loose to a lesser hand, then get KK later and just win the blinds, etc... Like earlier today i lost a Buy in, guy raised, and i called... i hit trips on the flop and i checked to initial raiser planning to c/c or c/r and he checked behind so i bet turn and then river and he pushes on me... i have a boat so I feel its an easy call... and he shows trip AAs... shit like that seems to devastate me.
you guys have any recomendations about tilt? and controlling it?
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Old 10-12-2007, 08:54 AM #28 (permalink)  
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 http://www.grinderschool.com/articles.php?article=2.1
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