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LC: How to blow a 10:1 chip lead in 7 hands HU

  
 
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taipan168
Old 11-27-2006, 10:42 AM     Post subject: LC: How to blow a 10:1 chip lead in 7 hands HU #1 (permalink)  
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This really got to me, particularly after a long session of bubble pwnage of which I was very proud. Not sure I would have done anything else differently though.

PokerStars Game #7195398413: Tournament #36785177, $15+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2006/11/27 - 06:27:40 (ET)
Table '36785177 1' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: pokrfacedave (1810 in chips)
Seat 8: taipan168 (11690 in chips)
pokrfacedave: posts the ante 25
taipan168: posts the ante 25
pokrfacedave: posts small blind 200
taipan168: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to taipan168 [Ks Jc]
pokrfacedave: raises 1385 to 1785 and is all-in
taipan168: calls 1385
*** FLOP *** [Qh 8d 7h]
*** TURN *** [Qh 8d 7h] [3c]
*** RIVER *** [Qh 8d 7h 3c] [3h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
taipan168: shows [Ks Jc] (a pair of Threes)
pokrfacedave: shows [Ad 4d] (a pair of Threes - Ace kicker)
pokrfacedave collected 3620 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3620 | Rake 0
Board [Qh 8d 7h 3c 3h]
Seat 2: pokrfacedave (button) (small blind) showed [Ad 4d] and won (3620) with a pair of Threes
Seat 8: taipan168 (big blind) showed [Ks Jc] and lost with a pair of Threes


PokerStars Game #7195399951: Tournament #36785177, $15+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2006/11/27 - 06:28:01 (ET)
Table '36785177 1' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 2: pokrfacedave (3620 in chips)
Seat 8: taipan168 (9880 in chips)
pokrfacedave: posts the ante 25
taipan168: posts the ante 25
taipan168: posts small blind 200
pokrfacedave: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to taipan168 [3s 4d]
taipan168: folds
pokrfacedave collected 450 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 450 | Rake 0
Seat 2: pokrfacedave (big blind) collected (450)
Seat 8: taipan168 (button) (small blind) folded before Flop


PokerStars Game #7195400474: Tournament #36785177, $15+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2006/11/27 - 06:28:08 (ET)
Table '36785177 1' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: pokrfacedave (3845 in chips)
Seat 8: taipan168 (9655 in chips)
pokrfacedave: posts the ante 25
taipan168: posts the ante 25
pokrfacedave: posts small blind 200
taipan168: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to taipan168 [Ac 5c]
pokrfacedave: calls 200
taipan168: raises 9230 to 9630 and is all-in
pokrfacedave: folds
taipan168 collected 850 from pot
taipan168: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 850 | Rake 0
Seat 2: pokrfacedave (button) (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: taipan168 (big blind) collected (850)


PokerStars Game #7195401366: Tournament #36785177, $15+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2006/11/27 - 06:28:20 (ET)
Table '36785177 1' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 2: pokrfacedave (3420 in chips)
Seat 8: taipan168 (10080 in chips)
pokrfacedave: posts the ante 25
taipan168: posts the ante 25
taipan168: posts small blind 200
pokrfacedave: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to taipan168 [6d 9c]
taipan168: raises 9655 to 10055 and is all-in
pokrfacedave: calls 2995 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [8h Qc 9d]
*** TURN *** [8h Qc 9d] [Kh]
*** RIVER *** [8h Qc 9d Kh] [4c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
pokrfacedave: shows [Kc 7s] (a pair of Kings)
taipan168: shows [6d 9c] (a pair of Nines)
pokrfacedave collected 6840 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6840 | Rake 0
Board [8h Qc 9d Kh 4c]
Seat 2: pokrfacedave (big blind) showed [Kc 7s] and won (6840) with a pair of Kings
Seat 8: taipan168 (button) (small blind) showed [6d 9c] and lost with a pair of Nines


PokerStars Game #7195403159: Tournament #36785177, $15+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (300/600) - 2006/11/27 - 06:28:44 (ET)
Table '36785177 1' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: pokrfacedave (6840 in chips)
Seat 8: taipan168 (6660 in chips)
pokrfacedave: posts the ante 50
taipan168: posts the ante 50
pokrfacedave: posts small blind 300
taipan168: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to taipan168 [7c As]
pokrfacedave: calls 300
taipan168: raises 6010 to 6610 and is all-in
pokrfacedave: folds
taipan168 collected 1300 from pot
taipan168: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1300 | Rake 0
Seat 2: pokrfacedave (button) (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: taipan168 (big blind) collected (1300)


PokerStars Game #7195404048: Tournament #36785177, $15+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (300/600) - 2006/11/27 - 06:28:56 (ET)
Table '36785177 1' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 2: pokrfacedave (6190 in chips)
Seat 8: taipan168 (7310 in chips)
pokrfacedave: posts the ante 50
taipan168: posts the ante 50
taipan168: posts small blind 300
pokrfacedave: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to taipan168 [Tc Kc]
taipan168: raises 6660 to 7260 and is all-in
pokrfacedave: calls 5540 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [8d 7d 3d]
*** TURN *** [8d 7d 3d] [3c]
*** RIVER *** [8d 7d 3d 3c] [6c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
pokrfacedave: shows [Jh Kd] (a pair of Threes)
taipan168: shows [Tc Kc] (a pair of Threes - lower kicker)
taipan168 said, "ouch"
pokrfacedave collected 12380 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 12380 | Rake 0
Board [8d 7d 3d 3c 6c]
Seat 2: pokrfacedave (big blind) showed [Jh Kd] and won (12380) with a pair of Threes
Seat 8: taipan168 (button) (small blind) showed [Tc Kc] and lost with a pair of Threes


PokerStars Game #7195405454: Tournament #36785177, $15+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (300/600) - 2006/11/27 - 06:29:16 (ET)
Table '36785177 1' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: pokrfacedave (12380 in chips)
Seat 8: taipan168 (1120 in chips)
pokrfacedave: posts the ante 50
taipan168: posts the ante 50
pokrfacedave: posts small blind 300
taipan168: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to taipan168 [4s Qs]
pokrfacedave: raises 600 to 1200
taipan168: calls 470 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [3h 9c 3d]
*** TURN *** [3h 9c 3d] [6d]
*** RIVER *** [3h 9c 3d 6d] [7s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
taipan168: shows [4s Qs] (a pair of Threes)
pokrfacedave: shows [4d 5d] (a straight, Three to Seven)
pokrfacedave collected 2240 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2240 | Rake 0
Board [3h 9c 3d 6d 7s]
Seat 2: pokrfacedave (button) (small blind) showed [4d 5d] and won (2240) with a straight, Three to Seven
Seat 8: taipan168 (big blind) showed [4s Qs] and lost with a pair of Threes
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Fnord
Old 11-27-2006, 10:48 AM #2 (permalink)  
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The blinds are huge and you got it in drawing live, I wouldn't worry about this.

Only the 69o hand was kinda spewy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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taipan168
Old 11-27-2006, 11:07 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
The blinds are huge and you got it in drawing live, I wouldn't worry about this.

Only the 69o hand was kinda spewy.
Thanks Fnord, my logic behind this hand was that opp is shortstacked but not so short that he/she is going to be calling with ATC. It is only -EV if opp is calling with wider than 22+,A2+,K2+,Q7o+,Q3s+,J9o+,J7s+,T8s+ (44%) and with 8.5x BB he's not calling this wide (although I've been shoving very often since it got to 4-handed). Maybe I could have let him have this one to let him know that I'm being at least a little selective in what I'm shoving...
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Barry5
Old 11-27-2006, 11:53 AM #4 (permalink)  

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Taipan, a tough 7 hands. You were just unlucky.
Only things I would do differently would be:-

hand 2. I wouldn't fold connectors (albeit small ones). Don't know whether i would have limped or raised but I try not to fold anything on the basis that you're always getting 3-1. Of course, if BB comes out raising to put you off your game then, that's different.

hand 4. if you want to bully, I think a 3x raise would have the same impact on a small stack at this stage. However, I may well have gone Ai with bottom pair on the flop.

hand 6. I was saying ouch when i read the hand and then saw your comment. What is it with you and Ks?

No need to get down on yourself. I've jsut been reading a post in another forum where some guy has lost 13 heads up in a row, which is really tough.
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Da GOAT
Old 11-27-2006, 12:15 PM     Post subject: Re: LC: How to blow a 10:1 chip lead in 7 hands HU #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taipan168
PokerStars Game #7195399951: Tournament #36785177, $15+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2006/11/27 - 06:28:01 (ET)
Table '36785177 1' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 2: pokrfacedave (3620 in chips)
Seat 8: taipan168 (9880 in chips)
pokrfacedave: posts the ante 25
taipan168: posts the ante 25
taipan168: posts small blind 200
pokrfacedave: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to taipan168 [3s 4d]
taipan168: folds Always call unless he pushes back
pokrfacedave collected 450 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 450 | Rake 0
Seat 2: pokrfacedave (big blind) collected (450)
Seat 8: taipan168 (button) (small blind) folded before Flop

PokerStars Game #7195401366: Tournament #36785177, $15+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2006/11/27 - 06:28:20 (ET)
Table '36785177 1' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 2: pokrfacedave (3420 in chips)
Seat 8: taipan168 (10080 in chips)
pokrfacedave: posts the ante 25
taipan168: posts the ante 25
taipan168: posts small blind 200
pokrfacedave: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to taipan168 [6d 9c]
taipan168: raises 9655 to 10055 and is all-in limp, im not doing this stuff much anymore. play a flop is so much more profitable
pokrfacedave: calls 2995 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [8h Qc 9d]
*** TURN *** [8h Qc 9d] [Kh]
*** RIVER *** [8h Qc 9d Kh] [4c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
pokrfacedave: shows [Kc 7s] (a pair of Kings)
taipan168: shows [6d 9c] (a pair of Nines)
pokrfacedave collected 6840 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6840 | Rake 0
Board [8h Qc 9d Kh 4c]
Seat 2: pokrfacedave (big blind) showed [Kc 7s] and won (6840) with a pair of Kings
Seat 8: taipan168 (button) (small blind) showed [6d 9c] and lost with a pair of Nines


PokerStars Game #7195404048: Tournament #36785177, $15+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (300/600) - 2006/11/27 - 06:28:56 (ET)
Table '36785177 1' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 2: pokrfacedave (6190 in chips)
Seat 8: taipan168 (7310 in chips)
pokrfacedave: posts the ante 50
taipan168: posts the ante 50
taipan168: posts small blind 300
pokrfacedave: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to taipan168 [Tc Kc]
taipan168: raises 6660 to 7260 and is all-in okay im gonna limp here, reason being i think its more EV to call, this hand could be the decider if your called. play flop, hit TP on flop and you win. you will be paid off by worse
pokrfacedave: calls 5540 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [8d 7d 3d]
*** TURN *** [8d 7d 3d] [3c]
*** RIVER *** [8d 7d 3d 3c] [6c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
pokrfacedave: shows [Jh Kd] (a pair of Threes)
taipan168: shows [Tc Kc] (a pair of Threes - lower kicker)
taipan168 said, "ouch"
pokrfacedave collected 12380 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 12380 | Rake 0
Board [8d 7d 3d 3c 6c]
Seat 2: pokrfacedave (big blind) showed [Jh Kd] and won (12380) with a pair of Threes
Seat 8: taipan168 (button) (small blind) showed [Tc Kc] and lost with a pair of Threes
i havent read any of the other replies. i can only say that in trubos my 1st place % is higher than any other so take it that it works. i did used to push marginals ITM but found if i mix it up a little (not to confuse opp's who arent even looking but to instead get more value from postflop) it really is hugely beneficial.
Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
 
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jimmy44
Old 11-27-2006, 12:20 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 You played it well! Don't get down on yourself!
My reasoning on Heads-up is always that you need to get lucky at some point to win. I remenber Harrington's sentence: "The cards rule Heads up!". We can of course put all the chances in our side by playing the best possible poker, but the cards will rule. I'm going to post a HH from a $16 SNG where I also got unlucky at the end. But that's poker! Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose.

The only thing I would differently would be the hand 4, where I would call or maybe fold as villain my put you all-in.
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Da GOAT
Old 11-27-2006, 01:05 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy44
My reasoning on Heads-up is always that you need to get lucky at some point to win.
i disagree, its more than just hands or luck. every hand can win depending on how you play them.
Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
 
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jimmy44
Old 11-27-2006, 02:21 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Da GOAT
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy44
My reasoning on Heads-up is always that you need to get lucky at some point to win.
i disagree, its more than just hands or luck. every hand can win depending on how you play them.
I did not meant that you don't need to play them well.
However, as in hand 1, I would call with any K or A or any PP. Here we need to get lucky (e.g. so that either villain has a worst hand and it holds to win or that we pair the board and win). In this hand you can play it however you want, but villain will push almost anything and you'll have to call with KJo. This for me it's the luck you need to win.

When the chips are divided equally between the two players, like for example hand 5, you can maybe outplay your opponent, but you will always be in a situation like hand 1 if you outplay your opponent and get most of his stack.

For me one individual Heads up session is influenced by luck, but you can get all the chances on your side by outplaying your opponent. However, in a big sample of Heads up sessions, the good player will make some money as luck will even itself out.
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Da GOAT
Old 11-27-2006, 03:49 PM #9 (permalink)  
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i just dont believe in luck anymore. poker has ruined that for me
Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
 
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MuddyWicket
Old 11-27-2006, 03:59 PM #10 (permalink)  
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I would not argue against a single play individually but to echo Da Goats comment I think you lose an edge if your move is only push or fold. HH1 I'm sure he said calling is fine if you dont think he is going to raise.

Aggression is required heads up but you have to temper that by considering each others M to justify the level of aggression.

PS. please dont mention cricket....
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MuddyWicket
Old 11-27-2006, 04:03 PM #11 (permalink)  
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hmm forgot u play turbos. Time is a luxury.
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taipan168
Old 11-28-2006, 12:24 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Thanks for the replies. I think I agree with Goat and MuddyWicket that I lose some value by just pushing rather than occasionally calling. Maybe I need to tweak my HU strategy a bit, particularly for opps who check their BB if I complete.

I think the only hand I would have played differently was the 96o hand, I doubt that opp would have called my flop bet given he missed the flop. I was happy shoving the KTs hand, that holds up pretty well HU and blinds are getting pretty huge.

PS. Cricket? What's that?
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Da GOAT
Old 11-28-2006, 08:19 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taipan168
I was happy shoving the KTs hand, that holds up pretty well HU and blinds are getting pretty huge.
I cant argue with that. but instead of flipping or been behind an Ace we are probably better than opp so why lose so much edge.

also you might say the chance he folds is X %. well what do we really gain from winning this hand by opp folding, it aint first place. instead limp,hit,c/r or bet which ever suits.
Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
 
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MuddyWicket
Old 11-28-2006, 09:59 AM #14 (permalink)  
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The funny thing about the 96 hand, which i think pushing was fine, is that he called with k7.

I actually stop pushing so much once i get heads up if i have a reasonable stack. They only have reasonable cards 1/3 of the time and they only hit the flop 1/3 times. To me that says only 1/9 times when u raise your in trouble so steal away. And 1/3 of the times they hit the flop its probably bottom pair and not many people like being reraised with bottom pair.

There is much more opportunity for post flop play when heads up compared to the bubble or 3 way. It is the most fun part of a sng tourney imo, because your only playing one person and you can really mess with each others heads.
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