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late position 3 bet vs aggro player

  
 
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GrindCity3
Old 05-22-2008, 05:00 AM     Post subject: late position 3 bet vs aggro player #1 (permalink)  
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okay so stats for this guy is 33/29/2 over like 30 hands.... so not a huge amount of hands to base opinions on... without being results oriented is this okay against a player that seems to be aggressive....

FTR Hand History Converter Output (intended for copying and pasting into poker forums!):
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($7.05)
UTG ($47.20)
MP ($25)
CO ($24.65)
Button ($34.65)
Hero ($25.10)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J, A.
3 folds, Button raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $3, 1 fold, Button calls $2.25.

Flop: ($6.25) 8, A, T (2 players)
Hero bets $4, Button raises to $12, Hero raises to $22.1, Button calls $10.10.

Turn: ($50.45) Q (2 players)

River: ($50.45) Q (2 players)

Final Pot: $50.45
I gotta get back to the money....
 
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will641
Old 05-22-2008, 05:21 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 its fine. it would be nice to have an idea how he plays post flop, but we have TPGK on a drawy board in a 3bet pot and we can get it in here and be relatively happy about it.
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Fnord
Old 05-22-2008, 06:40 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Standard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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minSim
Old 05-22-2008, 07:05 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Can someone give his opinions on 3-betting vs calling preflop?

Mine are:
Villains raising range is wiiiiiiiiiiide, our AJ as way ahead of it. Assuming villain has a standard 3bet call range, theres lots of FE. On the other hand, 72o has the same FE as AJ.
So I'd rather take a flop with a hand I'm often good with and can extract a decent amount of money postflop. We dominate quite some hands of villain, so we should easily end ahead with it.
I'd much rather 3bet some SC's/SC+1's or garbage hands.
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Fnord
Old 05-22-2008, 07:26 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Unless he's spewing mulitple street blufs for his stack or calling with wreckless abandon so he can bust and go home, looking to hit a flop isn't the way to abuse the shit out of this guy.

Bullies don't like to fold to a single act of agression, particularly on cheap streets. So build a huge ass pot with a couple big cards and face him with a big money bet. Sometimes it will end very badly for you, however between the times he can't continue and the times you catch him second best you will come out way ahead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by minSim
I'd much rather 3bet some SC's/SC+1's or garbage hands.
The problem is that he will make you put it in with a pair often enough that we need a hand more often than that stuff will connect. Also, if we bluff into him hands like AJ, KQ can catch a pair and suck out against his range.

Don't take shit from anyone, re-raise their ass.
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minSim
Old 05-22-2008, 08:46 AM #6 (permalink)  
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What if we combine it with c/r-ing every now and then on boards we miss, but villain likely missed as well?

The thing I have with 3betting AT/AJ (sometimes AQ) is that we're not often getting value when we hit our A as our 3bet folds out all the worse Ax hands.


But I see a point in that we're not going to be able to make enough profitable flop moves OOP, to make up for the times we c/f flop.


There has to be some point, in relation to villain PFR I guess, where this becomes more grayish. Like what if villains PFR is:
- 10?
- 15?
- 20?
- 40?
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Fnord
Old 05-22-2008, 08:57 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minSim
our 3bet folds out all the worse Ax hands.
Nope
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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minSim
Old 05-22-2008, 10:11 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by minSim
our 3bet folds out all the worse Ax hands.
Nope
This is something we disagree, but that's unimportant for understanding the concept.

If we assume worse A's do fold, do you still prefer a 3bet?
Would you ever call this hand in this position?
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Galapogos
Old 05-22-2008, 04:22 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minSim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by minSim
our 3bet folds out all the worse Ax hands.
Nope
This is something we disagree, but that's unimportant for understanding the concept.

If we assume worse A's do fold, do you still prefer a 3bet?
Would you ever call this hand in this position?
Against this guy I 3-bet him with AJ from like every spot. He's not giving up hands that easily. So where AJ is normally a pretty marginal value bet/bluff against tighter TAggs, it becomes a clear value play against this guy.


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I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
 
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tarath
Old 05-22-2008, 11:24 PM #10 (permalink)  
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super standard
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