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Lagtard prop bet RESULTS!!!

  
 
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pocketfours
Old 03-19-2008, 07:01 PM     Post subject: Lagtard prop bet RESULTS!!! #1 (permalink)  
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 We've got results! I was surprised by the poll outcome, but seems you guys know what you are talking about. After the first 300 hands or so I really started to learn how to adjust, but at this level villains are indeed quite easy to read and outplay. I won the bet but I won't disclose the bet details.

I made a new thread for discussing the results.

Absolute nightmare start, lost 3,5 BI in just 40 hands! Totally lost all respect from that so fortunately was pretty easy to win it back.

A couple of times I had to change tables because of some other lag that had position on me and made my life pretty miserable. Table and seat selection seems important. I played a total of 13 different tables for an average of around 75 hands/table.

Will be posting selected HH's later.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 03-19-2008, 07:08 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 Do poker ev so we can see the W$ without SD
Check out the new blog!!!
 
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nutsinho
Old 03-19-2008, 07:34 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 very nice
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
 
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griffey24
Old 03-19-2008, 08:10 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 went to SD 34, won at SD 45! thats pretty sick

were you running hot, or were you just thinly value betting them to death?
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pocketfours
Old 03-19-2008, 08:11 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Do poker ev so we can see the W$ without SD
The damn thing isn't compatible with Ongame. PT filter 'won without showdown' shows $405 profit.
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Alexos
Old 03-19-2008, 08:13 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 post ur top 5-10 biggest hands for shits and giggles

nicely done too!
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dev
Old 03-19-2008, 08:38 PM #7 (permalink)  
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This is awsome.
Check out my self-deprecation here!
 
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martindcx1e
Old 03-19-2008, 09:03 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Alexos
post ur top 5-10 biggest hands for shits and giggles
please do
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
 
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ZwiFT
Old 03-19-2008, 10:16 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Thats pretty nice start, i would think your style is gonna show a hell of alot swongs and this is def one of the upswings Wonder how stable your BB/100 could be after 50k hands
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mcatdog
Old 03-19-2008, 10:42 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Would you agree that playing this style is pretty damn close to optimal at 25NL?

Was this mostly raising, c-betting and shutting down or did you run a decent number of multiple barrels?

edit: 16 BB/100 in rake is sick, the sites rape low-limit fish so hard
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microgrinder
Old 03-19-2008, 10:59 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
edit: 16 BB/100 in rake is sick, the sites rape low-limit fish so hard
Surely this isn't his rake contributed but that of the whole table?

Also this is obv an upswing, 1k hands is way too small a sample size.
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pocketfours
Old 03-19-2008, 11:35 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 Ok here we go. 8 HH's, have fun.

I'm not posting any stats of villains because they are very heavily distorted by the fact that I'm playing almost every pot.

My image is like 'stupid fish donator donkey' in every hand. At these stakes they simply don't get it when you 4-bet bluff and call a shove with crap like J3o. They think you are retarded. Actually the 4-bet bluff is a hugely -EV play at these stakes (learning as we go). Most of the big pots I lost were 4-bet bluffs that got called (I didn't win a single one of them). Did wonders to my image though so probably close to neutral EV.

I feel kindof bad for taking the microstakers' money

===========================================
1. Very standard valuetown with a bad image. I had to bet 6xBB at this table pre because I couldn't handle 3 callers on every hand. I don't even mind villain's play here all that much considering my preceding plays. The turn overbet sealed the deal.
===========================================

Seat 1: CUTOFF ($23.30 in chips)
Seat 2: BUTTON ($24.10 in chips)
Seat 4: SB ($45.60 in chips)
Seat 6: BB ($36.95 in chips)
Seat 10: HERO [ 10C,QD ] ($25.00 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
SB posts blind ($0.15), BB posts blind ($0.25).

PRE-FLOP
HERO bets $1.50, CUTOFF folds, BUTTON folds, SB calls $1.35, BB folds.

FLOP [board cards 7H,QC,8D ]
SB checks, HERO bets $3, SB calls $3.

TURN [board cards 7H,QC,8D,3D ]
SB checks, HERO bets $10, SB calls $10.

RIVER [board cards 7H,QC,8D,3D,3H ]
SB checks, HERO bets $10.50 and is all-in, SB calls $10.50.

SHOWDOWN
HERO shows [ 10C,QD ]
SB shows [ 5C,7C ]
HERO wins $49.15



===========================================
2. This one is pretty interesting. Villain seemed very good for this level. I was 3-betting relentlessly so I can have pretty much anything here. I checked the flop to show that I don't have an ace. I'm assuming that he would think it's crazy for me to not bet top pair or better here because I'm cbetting all the time with garbage. I checked the turn because I'm pretty sure he has some kind of hand at least and I think he needs to bet for value with any made hand. I knew he will never give me credit if I c/r. He insta-snapcalled the river (I would have too).
===========================================

Seat 1: UTG ($26.50 in chips)
Seat 3: CUTOFF ($24.30 in chips)
Seat 5: BUTTON ($31.75 in chips)
Seat 8: HERO [ AS,JC ] ($70.75 in chips)
Seat 9: BB ($18.30 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
HERO posts blind ($0.15), BB posts blind ($0.25).

PRE-FLOP
UTG folds, CUTOFF folds, BUTTON bets $1, HERO bets $3, BB folds, BUTTON calls $2.15.

FLOP [board cards AC,2S,10D ]
HERO checks, BUTTON checks.

TURN [board cards AC,2S,10D,8S ]
HERO checks, BUTTON bets $4, HERO bets $12, BUTTON calls $8.

RIVER [board cards AC,2S,10D,8S,6S ]
HERO bets $17, BUTTON calls $16.60 and is all-in.

SHOWDOWN
HERO shows [ AS,JC ]
BUTTON shows [ KD,KH ]
HERO wins $62.65.



===========================================
3. Villain thinks I'm just messing around and calls my 4-bet with A7s. Bottom pair is enough for him on the flop. These people just assume that you don't have half a braincell if you bet/raise almost every time preflop. Of course he has to call the flop, but overcall 3-bet + big 4-bet with a weak ace, that's just ridiculous.
===========================================

Seat 1: BB ($26.35 in chips)
Seat 3: UTG ($25.00 in chips)
Seat 5: CUTOFF ($27.20 in chips)
Seat 8: HERO [ KD,KC ] ($97.85 in chips)
Seat 9: SB ($21.05 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
SB posts blind ($0.15), BB posts blind ($0.25).

PRE-FLOP
UTG folds, CUTOFF folds, HERO bets $1, SB bets $3, BB calls $2.90, HERO bets $10, SB folds, BB calls $7.85.

FLOP [board cards 7H,10S,QH ]
BB checks, HERO bets $17, BB calls $15.35 and is all-in.

TURN [board cards 7H,10S,QH,9C ]

RIVER [board cards 7H,10S,QH,9C,3D ]

SHOWDOWN
HERO shows [ KD,KC ]
BB shows [ 7S,AS ]
HERO wins $56.



===========================================
4. This one was funny against a limp-calling donk. Pretty easy valuetown on the turn. These guys just can't let a maniac take their pot or they can't sleep at night.
===========================================

Seat 3: BB ($20.35 in chips)
Seat 4: UTG ($23.25 in chips)
Seat 5: CUTOFF ($25.80 in chips)
Seat 6: BUTTON ($23.65 in chips)
Seat 9: HERO [ 6H,AC ] ($32.35 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
HERO posts blind ($0.15), BB posts blind ($0.25).

PRE-FLOP
CUTOFF folds, BUTTON calls $0.25, HERO bets $1.50, BB folds, BUTTON calls $1.40.

FLOP [board cards AS,4S,QH ]
HERO checks, BUTTON bets $4, HERO calls $4.

TURN [board cards AS,4S,QH,10D ]
HERO checks, BUTTON bets $4, HERO bets $26.70 and is all-in, BUTTON calls $14 and is all-in.

RIVER [board cards AS,4S,QH,10D,2H ]

SHOWDOWN
HERO shows [ 6H,AC ]
BUTTON shows [ QS,9H ]
HERO wins $54.75



===========================================
5. Donkey shoves A high on three nines board (140BB deep), even though I would never fold any boat here. Notice preflop 8xBB open and 32xBB 3-bet. I could have bet even more, since there is no hand he will fold to my 3-bet after he goes 8x. Surprised he didn't 4-bet.
===========================================

Seat 3: BUTTON ($35.50 in chips)
Seat 6: HERO [ AH,AC ] ($40.10 in chips)
Seat 7: BB ($36.45 in chips)
Seat 9: UTG ($31.30 in chips)
Seat 10: CUTOFF ($49.10 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
HERO posts blind ($0.15), BB posts blind ($0.25).

PRE-FLOP
UTG folds, CUTOFF folds, BUTTON bets $2, HERO bets $8, BB folds, BUTTON calls $6.15.

FLOP [board cards 3S,9S,9H ]
HERO bets $12, BUTTON calls $12.

TURN [board cards 3S,9S,9H,9C ]
HERO bets $5, BUTTON bets $15.35 and is all-in, HERO calls $10.35.

RIVER [board cards 3S,9S,9H,9C,4C ]

SHOWDOWN
BUTTON shows [ QC,AS ]
HERO shows [ AH,AC ]
HERO wins $69.75.



===========================================
6. This one is hilarious. Pathetic attempt to play back at me. Snapcall fistpump. K high no goot.
===========================================

Seat 1: SB ($50.70 in chips)
Seat 3: BB ($24.25 in chips)
Seat 5: UTG ($32.20 in chips)
Seat 6: HERO [ 9C,8H ] ($104.15 in chips)
Seat 7: BUTTON ($24.60 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
SB posts blind ($0.15), BB posts blind ($0.25).

PRE-FLOP
UTG folds, HERO bets $1, BUTTON folds, SB folds, BB bets $3.25, HERO calls $2.50.

FLOP [board cards 8S,3D,JS ]
BB bets $4, HERO calls $4.

TURN [board cards 8S,3D,JS,7D ]
BB checks, HERO checks.

RIVER [board cards 8S,3D,JS,7D,2H ]
BB bets $10, HERO calls $10.

SHOWDOWN
BB shows [ 10C,KC ]
HERO shows [ 9C,8H ]
HERO wins $33.65.



===========================================
7. Coolered when slowplayed boat got a miracle river.
===========================================

Seat 7: HERO [ 3S,3C ] ($49.75 in chips)
Seat 8: SB ($33.50 in chips)
Seat 9: BB ($21.00 in chips)
Seat 10: UTG ($22.95 in chips)
Seat 10: CUTOFF ($24.95 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
SB posts blind ($0.15), BB posts blind ($0.25).

PRE-FLOP
UTG folds, CUTOFF calls $0.25, HERO bets $1, SB calls $0.85, BB calls $0.75, CUTOFF calls $0.75.

FLOP [board cards KH,9H,9S ]
SB checks, BB checks, CUTOFF checks, HERO checks.

TURN [board cards KH,9H,9S,7S ]
SB checks, BB bets $0.50, CUTOFF folds, HERO calls $0.50, SB calls $0.50.

RIVER [board cards KH,9H,9S,7S,3H ]
SB checks, BB bets $5, HERO bets $15, SB folds, BB bets $14.50 and is all-in, HERO calls $4.50.

SHOWDOWN
BB shows [ 9C,KC ]
HERO shows [ 3S,3C ]
BB wins $43.



===========================================
8. Running bad too. Nice river.
===========================================

Texas Hold'em $0.25-$0.50 NL (real money), hand #P4-63301795-322
Table Jattji's HE, 18 Mar 2008 10:30 PM ET

Seat 1: HERO [ 9H,8H ] ($24.65 in chips)
Seat 2: UTG ($42.25 in chips)
Seat 3: CUTOFF ($24.65 in chips)
Seat 4: BUTTON ($24.15 in chips)
Seat 9: SB ($27.05 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
SB posts blind ($0.15), HERO posts blind ($0.25).

PRE-FLOP
UTG folds, CUTOFF folds, BUTTON calls $0.25, SB bets $1, HERO calls $0.90, BUTTON folds.

FLOP [board cards 8S,2C,KH ]
SB bets $2, HERO calls $2.

TURN [board cards 8S,2C,KH,9D ]
SB bets $3, HERO bets $12, SB bets $20.90 and is all-in, HERO calls $9.50 and is all-in.

RIVER [board cards 8S,2C,KH,9D,QH ]

SHOWDOWN
SB shows [ QC,KC ]
HERO shows [ 9H,8H ]
SB wins $50.45
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EzDuzIt
Old 03-19-2008, 11:42 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours

My image is like 'stupid fish donator donkey' in every hand. At these stakes they simply don't get it when you 4-bet bluff and call a shove with crap like J3o. They think you are retarded. Actually the 4-bet bluff is a hugely -EV play at these stakes (learning as we go). Most of the big pots I lost were 4-bet bluffs that got called (I didn't win a single one of them). Did wonders to my image though so probably close to neutral EV.
shouldnt you just 4bet to an amount where you arent priced in with j30?
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pocketfours
Old 03-19-2008, 11:57 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EzDuzIt
shouldnt you just 4bet to an amount where you arent priced in with j30?
I tried that at first, but I got a call every time. It's obviously no fun to play J3o postflop in 4-bet pot with a 'maniac donkey' image.
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pocketfours
Old 03-20-2008, 02:09 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
Would you agree that playing this style is pretty damn close to optimal at 25NL?

Was this mostly raising, c-betting and shutting down or did you run a decent number of multiple barrels?

edit: 16 BB/100 in rake is sick, the sites rape low-limit fish so hard
I really can't say. At 25NL optimal is probably to play a huge amount of tables, and there's no way this loose can be profitable then. The biggest point is that these villains can easily be outplayed postflop.

I cbet against those that like to fold to cbets. I didn't like to barrel unless I had good draws. I did some amount of check-raising on the turn though.

This is indeed my contributed rake, so yes, pretty sick...
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ZwiFT
Old 03-20-2008, 02:56 AM #16 (permalink)  
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yeah playing this lag would couse insane amount of rake =X
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minSim
Old 03-20-2008, 08:24 AM #17 (permalink)  
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I actually didn't really believe Fnord when he said that rake was important when deciding whether LAG is optimal at low stakes....

Nice results p4's.
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microgrinder
Old 03-20-2008, 09:17 AM #18 (permalink)  
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This session inspired me to go even more LAG than usual tonight.

I Had slightly better than normal results, but I only played 1k hands. Played at about 28/25. I usually run at like 22/18 at 25NL. So far I'm +11BB/100 through 5k hands at 25NL since having to rebuild my bankroll. (thanks microgaming! :P) Tonight was +15BB/100, so maybe some highly LAG/maniac style is indeed optimal. It definitely felt like I was getting better value tonight, people made some weird river calls. Weirder than usual I mean.

Although I couldn't imagine 8 tabling while playing 56/44. Especially since my site doesn't support HUD.

One thing I'm curious about is that my AF are all like double what you logged in your session here. Not sure what significance that has.
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mixchange
Old 03-20-2008, 09:29 PM #19 (permalink)  
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supersick fours

post some more hands What is the max limit you think you could pull this and be profitable?
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pocketfours
Old 03-21-2008, 10:36 AM #20 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixchange
supersick fours

post some more hands What is the max limit you think you could pull this and be profitable?
I don't have a clue. I've never played lower than 100NL before. Any decent players who keep threebetting IP will destroy this strategy. I can 4-bet against them, but it's not going to be profitable playing this loose if I can't adjust. If I adjust then my stats won't be this high, but that's obviously not a problem when you aren't trying to win a bet.

I'm continuing this experiment. I played 135 hands at 25NL 5max yesterday with stats 70/59/3.77. I lost $19 but paid rake $18.

Here is easily the most interesting hand 240BB deep, 4 players at the table. My W$@SD was 36%, but I think my image here doesn't matter. I had reads that he was weak and it's not easy to put me on a bluff here, especially since I had not been betting the turn with air a single time.

Seat 1: BB ($25.00 in chips)
Seat 7: HERO [ 5S,2S ] ($61.00 in chips)
Seat 9: BUTTON ($80.15 in chips)
Seat 10: SB ($24.10 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
SB posts blind ($0.15), BB posts blind ($0.25).

PRE-FLOP
HERO bets $1, BUTTON calls $1, SB folds, BB folds.

FLOP [board cards 10S,6S,KD ]
HERO bets $2, BUTTON calls $2.

TURN [board cards 10S,6S,KD,3H ]
HERO bets $5, BUTTON bets $10, HERO calls $5.

RIVER [board cards 10S,6S,KD,3H,QD ]
HERO checks, BUTTON bets $20, HERO bets $48 and is all-in, BUTTON folds.

SHOWDOWN
HERO shows [ 5S,2S ]
HERO wins $92.90.
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