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jo
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10-31-2006, 03:54 PM
Post subject: LAG and TAG
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 166
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I often hear people called LAGs or TAGs, but I'm not sure where the boundary is. Assuming someone is a winning player, what kind of stats would be the border between a LAG and a TAG for 6 max NL?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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I consider my online game sTAG
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Tom42
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 110
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This is all a bit arbitrary IMO. I had my pokertracker autorate rules draw the line at 28 VPIP a few months ago. Someone with an postflop aggressionfactor above 2 is marked aggressive.
Now I consider someone below 25 VPIP tight, between 25-31 semi-loose, and above 31 loose.
FWIW, I think somewhere between 20-25 VPIP, 10-15 PFR, 2,50-3,50 AF is ideal, that is for the kind of game I play, 100NL on Party.
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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I'd say there are a lot of different stats to achieve either. I consider anybody with a PFR > 20 to be LAG even if they're not particularly loose as they are aggressive. There are 40/15 players that can be considered Lag. I play a 22/17 style while 6+ tabling which is Tag but also somewhat Lag at times when I'm getting in decent spots. Tag is probably 15-25 vpip / 10-20 pfr or something. A good tag / lag player can change gears depending on the table, loosening up at tight tables and tightening up at loose ones.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by aislephive
loosening up at tight tables and tightening up at loose ones.
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I thought better of you than to repeat that crap.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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tightening up is only good advice when the games are really loose and aggressive
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alias2211
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: U, S and A!!!
Posts: 469
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by aislephive
loosening up at tight tables and tightening up at loose ones.
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I thought better of you than to repeat that crap. |
lol in A5's defense i think he's answering a general question with a general response. if OP had asked a more specific question i think A5 would have reciprocated.
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alias2211
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: U, S and A!!!
Posts: 469
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perceived aggression is way different than measured aggression, so be careful on relying on PT stats as a solitary source for determination. make sure to works towards developing your spidey senses so that you can tell who truly is and is not aggressive without the aid/hinderance of PT. IMO, anything higher than a 2:1 ratio of VPIP:PFR starts to actually become less aggro and more passive (i.e. consider 20/15 vs. 30/15 vs 40/15). stats aside, if it feels like someone is raising the shit out of you all the time, they probably are, so react accordingly.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Problem is.. pure by definition LAG and TAG refer to preflop, but a lot of people take postflop play into consideration aswell. For example, a weak/tight guy who postflop folds everything but the nuts, calling him a TAG isn't really that representative.
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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jo
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 166
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Cool, thanks for all the replies guys. My VPIP and PFR have been steadily creeping up, probably because I'm gaining a bit more confidence with NL, but I still seem to be in TAG territory.
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jo
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
Problem is.. pure by definition LAG and TAG refer to preflop, but a lot of people take postflop play into consideration aswell. For example, a weak/tight guy who postflop folds everything but the nuts, calling him a TAG isn't really that representative.
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Yeah, but what I was really looking for was players with a winning LAG or TAG style. I think being aggressive postflop is a given for a winning player.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jo
Cool, thanks for all the replies guys. My VPIP and PFR have been steadily creeping up, probably because I'm gaining a bit more confidence with NL, but I still seem to be in TAG territory.
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Muhahahahaaha, bit by bit you become less of a nit...
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FlyingSaucy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Watching the kids
Posts: 1,603
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Looseness is always relative. It depends on the skill levels of your opponents mostly. There are times that I'd say in SnG's that reraising a 3x UTG raise with QQ is loose aggressive.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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apparently, the answer to EVERY question is...
it depends...
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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Not really.
It depends on the question ..
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