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will641
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05-05-2008, 05:15 PM
Post subject: KQ vs. unknown oop, river line
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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what is the optimal line here. comments on other streets welcome as well. my thinking here is c/f>block>anything else. although i think its close between blocking and c/f.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
SB ($43.75)
BB ($220.25)
UTG ($341.30)
Hero ($206.20)
CO ($208.35)
Button ($322.20)
Preflop: Hero is MP with Q , K .
1 fold, Hero raises to $8, CO calls $8, Button calls $8, 2 folds.
Flop: ($27) 5 , 8, K (3 players)
Hero bets $20, CO folds, Button calls $20.
Turn: ($67) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $48, Button calls $48.
River: ($163) 7 (2 players)
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Read? I probably just shove but that may be bad.
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Read? I probably just shove but that may be bad.
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If you're planning on getting it in anyway wouldn't check/call be a better line on this board than a shove?
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dalecooper
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Read? I probably just shove but that may be bad.
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If you're planning on getting it in anyway wouldn't check/call be a better line on this board than a shove? |
no, because hes not shoving KJ, or missed FD's here, and thats all we beat.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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It's impossible to answer this question without reads!
If he's a huge passive station I obviously bet for value, if he's an aggro player then I probably c/c. I think c/c could be good on this board because any/all mediocre hands that got there on river will see this as a good spot to bluff on the scare card.. especially missed flush draws.
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dalecooper
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Read? I probably just shove but that may be bad.
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If you're planning on getting it in anyway wouldn't check/call be a better line on this board than a shove? |
no, because hes not shoving KJ, or missed FD's here, and thats all we beat. |
That was a direct response to the idea of shoving, which I think is not great at all. (I like a check/fold or blocking bet as the best general action here.)
I don't like a shove at all, but I think even if you lean toward shoving for some reason, check/call has to be better because the board will induce some bluffs from hands that you beat that might not otherwise put any more money in (including KJ, KT, JJ, TT, missed FD). I don't see the point at all of shoving because all the hands you beat are going to fold unless this guy is really, really bad; and given the action he's probably going to call you with most of the hands that beat you, because it would seem highly unlikely that you fired that many barrels with a hand that would have turned into a straight.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
It's impossible to answer this question without reads!
If he's a huge passive station I obviously bet for value, if he's an aggro player then I probably c/c. I think c/c could be good on this board because any/all mediocre hands that got there on river will see this as a good spot to bluff on the scare card.. especially missed flush draws.
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This.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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ummm shove as a bluff seems okay but i default c/f.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
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I shove this almost every time but I can't tell you why tbh
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
I shove this almost every time but I can't tell you why tbh
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I like a shove here if your image is really bad/bluffy, because I think you'll get called here light if your image is bad.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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c/f
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
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We're c/fing because we put him on whatttt hand..... that flats two streets on a reasonably drawy board without raising... and suddenly bets this river?
I can't see what strong hand villain shows up with here really.
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Alexos
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
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bet bigger on turn, and c/f river
also i feel like he'll call u down with 67 a lot so even more reason to c/f
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
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Ok...
Against a standard unknown im pretty sure its safe to say C/F is best
Against ppl that like to bluff (implying u have a read), I can C/C too
I don't see much value in shoving though, as the most likely hands calling a shove that u beat are KT and KJ, and thats too narrow a range.
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
We're c/fing because we put him on whatttt hand..... that flats two streets on a reasonably drawy board without raising... and suddenly bets this river?
I can't see what strong hand villain shows up with here really.
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This is my issue, I just don't see many ways he gets to the river with a 9. He does get there with lots of Kx and FD's though. However I guess he won't call a shove with either of these things so c/f is the best line usually.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
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Upon rethinking this hand, I think 67, 78 and 89 are all pretty likely hands to call two barrels on this board and now have us beat on this river.
Though I don't know if villain is good enough to shove 67/78 for value on this river on this board. If he IS good enough to shove these, then c/f is ok, but if he's not then I'd say his range is mostly missed draws/weak hands on river if he bets when checked to.
I think c/f bit > c/c but both are better than shove imo.
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
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there are a lot of misc. AcXc hands in his range. QcJc, AcQc, JcTc.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
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He's just not bluffing enough here to c/c. The only missed draw is a FD that hasn't hit a pair or a straight and he may not even bluff it.
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