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CavemanWins
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Atlanta, Ga USA
Posts: 68
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Everyone at the table is loose. Especially calling preflop raises. The table is sitting at 70% for seen flops. Lots of callers chasing the flush to. Standard play? If not, say why. What if the table was full of tight-wads, would you play it any different then?
Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Button ($6.30)
SB ($5.60)
Hero ($10.12)
UTG ($28.07)
Preflop: Hero is BB with K , A . SB posts a blind of $0.05.
2 folds, SB (poster) completes, Hero raises to $0.4, SB raises to $2.6, Hero raises to $9.4, SB calls $3.
Flop: ($15.05) T , A , 2 (2 players)
Turn: ($15.05) 5 (2 players)
River: ($15.05) T (2 players)
Final Pot: $15.05
Results in white below:
SB has As Ad (full house, aces full of tens).
Hero has Ks Ac (two pair, aces and tens).
Outcome: SB wins $15.05.
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CavemanWins
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Atlanta, Ga USA
Posts: 68
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andr3w321
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 413
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Just limp behind preflop, KQo is not a hand you want to be playing a huge pot with. As it is you have bottom 2 which is somewhat marginal for going all in with. This one is tough, I probably end up shoving but know I'm beat when I get called.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Please don't do silly stuff like this. The differeces between 1000NL and 10NL are huge. Any advice you get will be wildly different depending on which stake it is. Alot of 1000NL advice you could get would be massivly -EV at 10NL.
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by andr3w321
Just limp behind preflop, KQo is not a hand you want to be playing a huge pot with. As it is you have bottom 2 which is somewhat marginal for going all in with. This one is tough, I probably end up shoving but know I'm beat when I get called.
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Umm, no.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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You played the hand perfectly but please don't pretend that the stakes are different from what they actually are.
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CavemanWins
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Atlanta, Ga USA
Posts: 68
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Thanks for the replies.
And why not do "silly" things like this, if not the purpose is to retrieve feedback from a different angle?
This game we play, "misleading" is damn near a strategic backbone. I am almost surprised people took offence at this.
But perhaps I have overstepped the boundaries at my level.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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I don't want to spend my time and effort here trying to give advice and help someone who is trying their best to render my advice useless.
If you wan't a "If this was 100NL how shoulf I play this hand" advice then just say that.
Why do you want people to supply help which won't help you?
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CavemanWins
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Atlanta, Ga USA
Posts: 68
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I apologize. The post has been edited back.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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I thought it was pretty clear that you were fudging things when I first read it.. 70% see flop at 1000NL?.. everybody chasing flushes?.. and you asking how to change it up if the table is nittier rather than so loose.. :P
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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andr3w321
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 413
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by aislephive
Quote:
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Originally Posted by andr3w321
Just limp behind preflop, KQo is not a hand you want to be playing a huge pot with. As it is you have bottom 2 which is somewhat marginal for going all in with. This one is tough, I probably end up shoving but know I'm beat when I get called.
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Umm, no. |
1. It's 10NL and he has 2pair
2. His hand is worth protecting
3. Worse hands will call
Note: the hand has been completely changed from before.
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by andr3w321
Quote:
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Originally Posted by aislephive
Quote:
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Originally Posted by andr3w321
Just limp behind preflop, KQo is not a hand you want to be playing a huge pot with. As it is you have bottom 2 which is somewhat marginal for going all in with. This one is tough, I probably end up shoving but know I'm beat when I get called.
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Umm, no. |
1. It's 10NL and he has 2pair
2. His hand is worth protecting
3. Worse hands will call
Note: the hand has been completely changed from before. |
I was reffering to your advice of limping behind with KQo on the button, that's ridiculous.
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andr3w321
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 413
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I don't fault a raise but I by no means think a limp behind is ridiculous. FWIW I don't even remember hero being on the button on this hand but I could definitely be wrong. Even if he was I don't think limping is a bad play and here is why.
1. Villain is almost never folding to our raise after he's limped from EP so we have little fold equity and are essentially value betting
2. Villain's range is likely ahead of ours so juicing the pot is just bad AT/AJ 99-22.
3. I feel raising here just invites spewage postflop. If the flop comes all low cards are you betting? Villain's range likely calls. If flop comes Ahigh are you betting? Villain probably calls here 40% of the time.
Sure raising likely isolates the villain and eliminates the blinds when we have position but it also juices a pot in which we hold a marginal hand in which its going to be hard to bet unless we actually hit. I see no harm in relying on our postflop sklls here. Again I don't think raising preflop is bad here but I also don't think calling is "ridiculous". I'm curious to hear others opinions here. I definitely in this position a fair amount but its by no means an autoraise for me.
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by andr3w321
I don't fault a raise but I by no means think a limp behind is ridiculous. FWIW I don't even remember hero being on the button on this hand but I could definitely be wrong. Even if he was I don't think limping is a bad play and here is why.
1. Villain is almost never folding to our raise after he's limped from EP so we have little fold equity and are essentially value betting
2. Villain's range is likely ahead of ours so juicing the pot is just bad AT/AJ 99-22.
3. I feel raising here just invites spewage postflop. If the flop comes all low cards are you betting? Villain's range likely calls. If flop comes Ahigh are you betting? Villain probably calls here 40% of the time.
Sure raising likely isolates the villain and eliminates the blinds when we have position but it also juices a pot in which we hold a marginal hand in which its going to be hard to bet unless we actually hit. I see no harm in relying on our postflop sklls here. Again I don't think raising preflop is bad here but I also don't think calling is "ridiculous". I'm curious to hear others opinions here. I definitely in this position a fair amount but its by no means an autoraise for me.
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Yes, we were in position. In the SB I'd probably just limp, but there is a big difference, on the button it's an easy raise for many reasons.
KQ is vastly ahead of his range, which includes basically suited connectors and small pairs as well as a ton of random junk. And at worst we're 60/40 or so against Ax? The preflop percentages aren't even relevant, it's not like we're flipping the cards face up and dealing the board out and pushing the pot towards the guy with the best hand. The pot goes towards the player in position with the initiative more often than not. KQ is a hand that plays pretty well postflop, and being in position it's easy to control pot size and get max value out of our hand at the same time.
If the limper likes to call a flop bet with underpairs or ace high very often from OOP then they're the easiest players to beat. Start to second barrell more often and they'll be a lot less likely to call a flop bet with 55 on a J96 flop. Don't you understand how massive +EV it is to punish limpers in position? Limpers are almost always weak preflop, if they had a hand they liked a whole lot they would have just raised it instead. C-betting the flop is not "spewage" by any means. Aren't you a cardrunners member? The entire theme of their NL cash game strategy is to be very aggressive in position and to c-bet very frequently.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by CavemanWins
I apologize. The post has been edited back.
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ty 
Ok now about the hand (the AK one).
I think this is fine because he is shortstacked and you will get AJish hands to call here alot. If he is full stacked just call his reraise.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Against tighter decent opponents it's hard to tell because you won't really find yourself in this situation. His pf reraise is huge, not something a decent player would do. I'd probably still end up all in pf though.
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