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Vi-Zer0Skill
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10-13-2007, 06:28 AM
Post subject: A-Ko 200NL
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#1 (permalink)
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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Villain is a 15/10 regular. Not sure that he would percieve me as playing unusually, since i have ran some bluffs and shown down a reasonable amount of good hands at tables he has been at. I can't think of any big pots i have played with him that have gone to showdown.
I wrote a post a little while ago about good spots to double barrel, and the funny thing is i used a spot like this as a bad spot to fire another bet.
Turn bet good? If he calls here do i c/f any river?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
BB ($117)
Hero ($225.95)
MP ($277.05)
Button ($162.20)
SB ($390.45)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with K , A .
Hero raises to $8, MP calls $8, 1 fold, SB calls $7, 1 fold.
Flop: ($26) 3 , 8, 8 (3 players)
SB bets $6, Hero raises to $24, MP calls $24, SB folds.
Turn: ($80) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $52
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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i like it vs a nit, hope you are prepared to shove the river!!
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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this takes a very specific read w history to know if it s good or not
lots of ppl just won t fold FH's
lots of nits will call the turn but not the river
since it s tough to know what he thinks of you then it s kind of useless to talk about the hand
against the avg nit I think you have to fire the river if you fire the turn
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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i think its ok too but u must go all in on the river if u bet the turn.
tho a 15/10 prob has more trouble folding any sort of overpair than say 20/15 and may not 3bet TT-QQ.
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Vi-Zer0Skill
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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You guys all think i should shove the river huh...
If he calls my turn bet, wouldn't it be a big mistake for him to fold to my river bet? I don't see how my range changes between the turn/river.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I kind of like half pot turn 3/4th pot river.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill
You guys all think i should shove the river huh...
If he calls my turn bet, wouldn't it be a big mistake for him to fold to my river bet? I don't see how my range changes between the turn/river.
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hes a tight player so hes probably at least decent at reading hands. when you shove riv he'll think for sure you arent bluffing
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill
You guys all think i should shove the river huh...
If he calls my turn bet, wouldn't it be a big mistake for him to fold to my river bet? I don't see how my range changes between the turn/river.
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hes a tight player so hes probably at least decent at reading hands. when you shove riv he'll think for sure you arent bluffing |
ding
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Vi-Zer0Skill
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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Off Topic: If villain is holding a mid pair, is he better off folding the flop than calling me down? The 8 wasn't a bad turn card, but he still can't like that i bet on it. Because once he calls the flop with a mid pair, i can't see anything other than calling me down (barring a Queen, King, or Ace coming on the board) as being correct.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill
Off Topic: If villain is holding a mid pair, is he better off folding the flop than calling me down? The 8 wasn't a bad turn card, but he still can't like that i bet on it. Because once he calls the flop with a mid pair, i can't see anything other than calling me down (barring a Queen, King, or Ace coming on the board) as being correct.
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completely disagree
he s just getting more info as the hand goes on; no need to make a decision for your stack by calling the flop with a pair vs an aggro villain
An approach that lends itself to "well if I was good on the flop, I'm obv still good so folding would be a mistake" seems pretty bad. By calling 1 barrel but not two, or 2 barrels but not 3, he's forcing you to make a play that not very many players, even aggressive ones, are capable of making at the lowstakes.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Vi-Zer0Skill
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Genitruc
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill
Off Topic: If villain is holding a mid pair, is he better off folding the flop than calling me down? The 8 wasn't a bad turn card, but he still can't like that i bet on it. Because once he calls the flop with a mid pair, i can't see anything other than calling me down (barring a Queen, King, or Ace coming on the board) as being correct.
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completely disagree
he s just getting more info as the hand goes on; no need to make a decision for your stack by calling the flop with a pair vs an aggro villain
An approach that lends itself to "well if I was good on the flop, I'm obv still good so folding would be a mistake" seems pretty bad. By calling 1 barrel but not two, or 2 barrels but not 3, he's forcing you to make a play that not very many players, even aggressive ones, are capable of making at the lowstakes. |
i am so happy i posted this because it has started me thinking about spots to fire three barrels. I don't really do it as a bluff more than once in a couple thousand hands, but i imagine i have passed up on many good opportunities.
would you say though that my thinking would be correct in a game filled with very strong players genitruc? I interpret your post as saying that his call is good as he is anticipating i will make the mistake of not firing three streets (he may not be thinking this but someone who was decent might). And clearly i would have made the mistake, but now i am much less likely to do so. And tomorrow i will likely still be playing low stakes 
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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in an aggressive game I think you'll get looked up a pretty good % of the time from a thinking aggressive villain with JJ or less (obv it's hard for an aggro villain to get to the turn or river this way w JJ but that s not the point).
At that point though, things depend much more on flow and history. The reason I think it's a good spot to fire 3 barrels vs a random nit is because they seem to fold a surprising amount to the 3rd barrel when you have AA or KK.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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