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Pelion
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11-03-2009, 02:41 PM
Post subject: KK vs fish. Meh flop. Ugh turn. And OOP.
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Villain is 48/13/2 fish, as are most of the other players at the table. This turn hits his range really hard, but hes passive enough that im not too worried about being bluffed. My thoughts at the time were that a bet pretty much splits his range into hands that beat me (raise) and hands that im ahead of (call), and I still think I have pretty good equity against his range. Pokerstove gives me 43% against what I believe to be a fair turn calling range (or continuing range) [Ill link it at the bottom for anyone interested]. He could also have some low PPs or maybe even like AJ that he floats/peels once and folds to the turn, maybe even like a KQ that he peels one and calls the turn. Anyway, the hand.
Just a quick note on the cbet size. For some reason I thought 2/3 pot was $2. Id usually bet $3 here for a nice round 3/4.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (SB) ($35.40)
BB ($23.10)
UTG ($41.65)
MP ($13.95)
CO ($5.85)
Button ($5)
Preflop: Hero is SB with K , K
2 folds, CO calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero bets $1.25, BB calls $1, CO calls $1
Flop: ($3.75) 9 , 8 , 9 (3 players)
Hero bets $2, BB calls $2, 1 fold
Turn: ($7.75) 10 (2 players)
Hero bet/folds $4.50? (And probably c/fs diamond rivers)
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 42.949% 42.95% 00.00% 3326 0.00 { KcKh }
Hand 1: 57.051% 57.05% 00.00% 4418 0.00 { JJ-77, AdQd, AdJd, AdTd, A9s-A8s, Ad7d, Ad6d, Ad5d, Ad4d, Ad3d, Ad2d, KdQd, KdJd, KdTd, K9s, Kd8d, Q9s+, J8s+, T7s+, 97s+, 87s, 76s, 6d5d, 5d4d, A9o, K9o, Q9o+, J8o+, T8o+, 97o+, 87o, 76o }
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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bets fine but based on this post and your last thread u gotta be betting larger.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Da GOAT
bets fine but based on this post and your last thread u gotta be betting larger.
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larger than $4.50?
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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bikes
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a hot damn mess
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,447
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Like 3.25 on the flop then like $8 on the turn.
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I damage threads that may actually benefit some posters
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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ok for some reason I totally decided to disregard cents in this hand. My thoughts were $2 into $3 on the flop, then $4.50 into $7 on the turn. Oh well. Anyway apart from bet sizing, hows the line? We are probably going to be value b/f for like half pot on brick rivers and c/f a diamond/straight cards.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Bet larger on both postflop streets being OOP and flush and straight draws on the board.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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You can even go PSB on the flop with so many draws available.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silly String
You can even go PSB on the flop with so many draws available.
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don't you want him to make a mistake? we have a clearly defined hand in a multiway pot on a paired board that hits our opponents ranges and we are out of position. i like the idea of maintaining the lead in this hand and even following through on any river that does not make 4 to a straight, but betting half to 3/5 pot on all streets seems like a great gameplan to compensate for the fact that we are lighting money on fire vs any thinking opponent by bombing the flop and turn for almost pot given how much stronger their range for putting in 3 or more bets is compared to ours on this board.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Quote:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silly String
You can even go PSB on the flop with so many draws available.
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don't you want him to make a mistake? we have a clearly defined hand in a multiway pot on a paired board that hits our opponents ranges and we are out of position. i like the idea of maintaining the lead in this hand and even following through on any river that does not make 4 to a straight, but betting half to 3/5 pot on all streets seems like a great gameplan to compensate for the fact that we are lighting money on fire vs any thinking opponent by bombing the flop and turn for almost pot given how much stronger their range for putting in 3 or more bets is compared to ours on this board. |
You're not afraid of light raises with small bets?
(fwiw my standard with any hand on this board would be like 2/3 to 3/4 psb)
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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I'm in the bet bigger camp. Even though I know nuts says bet smaller. I think you get more value from potting flop potting turn then half potting river than trying to bet 2/3-3/5 pot on all streets. You'll get more river folds doing that, and these players are so reluctant to fold any kind of draw that I think you need to maximize value on flop and turn.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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nutsinho, your posts are fucking awesome
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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Nutsinho, 995r I agree with you, but 998dd? I just think it's a way diff spot...
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marshall28
Nutsinho, 995r I agree with you, but 998dd? I just think it's a way diff spot...
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it is a different spot but the cost/benefit of blasting off out of position isnt much more attractive. plus im taking into account the turn card which gives him a lot more reasonable bluffcatchers vs smaller betsizing.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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RE: Bet sizing?
I see your point Nuts, but I thought we attempt to size our cbets according to the wetness of the board so as not to tip our hand strength. Maybe that was so 2007 though?
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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Ravageur
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Official Montreal SwampRat
Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,242
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count me in the camp of 3/4 potting flop and turn
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Family Cruise IMO
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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I love this thread. Please continue.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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I like OP's sizing, I like a bet of around 4-4.50 here. That being said, a lot of villains will perceive a smallish bet here as either "why would he bet so small on such a drawy board if he had something"... or "he's pricing in his draw for cheap".. and probably jam light. So if I chose that sizing I think I'd be b/c.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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