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|~|ypermegachi
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06-30-2008, 04:42 PM
Post subject: KK on a super drawy board
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG Losadios85 ($47.60)
UTG+1 jeppos ($236.80)
CO HookersBlow ($210.00)
BTN Pwnosaurus ($211.65)
SB Hero ($137.20)
BB THE GIANT42 ($282.10)
Pre-flop: ($3, 6 players) Hero is SB  
Losadios85 calls $2, jeppos calls $2, 2 folds, Hero raises to $10, 1 fold, Losadios85 calls $8, jeppos calls $8
Flop:    ($33, 3 players)
Hero bets $21, Losadios85 raises to $37.60, jeppos calls $37.60, Hero has ~$100 behind
i wasn't really concerned about the short stack cuz he was a short stack. i didn't have any real reads on jeppos except that he looks like a standard TAP.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Nice bet sizing, usually I pot this. Over half re-opens the action, right? If so, I IZ ARE RIN.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Why are you short?
Allin
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
Why are you short?
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Being short here makes this hand so much easier to play.
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Erpel
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 605
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(noob)
When I first read the action I thought that I might have made my flop bet bigger (and an overbet) because of the shortie (to put him all-in on my initiative), but reading the follow up comments I see that maybe the bet sizing was picked deliberately to allow the shortie to reopen the action so the shove could come in on the flop.
Due to Hero's stack size I can see more fold equity in the following 3bet shove on the flop that Fnord encourages when played this way - where the overbet I considered made this basically impossible (due to jeppos being read as tight-aggressive-passive) and would have taken the hand to the turn with $80 or so behind for Hero in a potentially $145 pot.
Ok, Hero shoves: Bet becomes $127, so jeppos needs to call $90. The pot becomes $33+$75+$127 = $235 giving him 2.6 to 1 to call - requiring about 7 outs to call - like AQ would give him. I'm afraid to me it's entirely likely that jeppos has 7 or more outs. If the AQ was with a h even a backdoor flush draw would count as 2 more outs. Any T alone has 8 outs. While on the surface I like the hand as played and I like a shove, I think jeppos having called 2 bets on the flop he has to have a hand with outs. Even QQ has 6 outs (8 if one is h). If jeppos has a hand with outs (which I think he almost certainly does) he'll call a shove and do so profitably. Due to jeppos having called the 2 bets on the flop I think Hero's fold equity is vanishingly small.
Alternative line I guess could be: Hero overbets to $37.6, both call, pot is $145.8 and Hero has $89.6 behind. On turn Hero will check/fold any 7, T, Q and heart (and puke) and shove any other card.
I'm not pretending to have the answer, but I think it's interesting that big drawing hands have fantastic equity on the flop and can call basically any shove, whereas on the turn any drawing hand that is still relying on outs to come will be correct to fold to many big bets or shoves.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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So many turn cards kill our action and/or put us in guessing games. It's a shove to take away any bluff outs and to balance out our shove range which contains a lot of draws.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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i snap shoved. ironically i feel much better shoving here with a draw than with KK, even though KK has more equity.
shorty had the nuts, and other guy had a OESFD (and hit obv).
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