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Benoso
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06-07-2009, 05:24 PM
Post subject: KK OOP versus LAGtard
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wales, UK
Posts: 157
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Just checking that this is standard.
Villain is a 45/30 lagtard.
PKR No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - PKR Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (SB) ($226.35)
BB ($70.25)
UTG ($284.35)
MP ($396.20)
CO ($73.06)
Button ($137.70)
Preflop: Hero is SB with K , K
1 fold, MP bets $8, 2 folds, Hero raises to $28, 1 fold, MP calls $28
Flop: ($60) 10, 7 , A (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $33, Hero folds
Total pot: $60 | Rake: $3
I mean obviously it's fairly likely he doesn't have an Ace but we're OOP and hie's probably firing all turns so I guess it's just a really high variance spot if we decide to hold on to our Kings. I thought I'd fold and wait for a better spot.
Std?
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Betting flop is standard for me nowdays.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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bet flop 100% of the time unless you have a read that he will float too much.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Benoso
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wales, UK
Posts: 157
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What, bet flop as a bluff? He'll only call with an Ace. Doubt he calls with QQ-JJ here.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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if u check then c/c imo
bode i think your advice is kinda backward. if he floats too much then bet flop.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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but If we're betting flop and he's calling with worse are we barreling? I think vs. a laggtard here we're better ff c/cing and maybe calling a barrel.
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Check out my self-deprecation here!
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Call
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Benoso
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wales, UK
Posts: 157
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So what do we do when we call and the turn bricks?
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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I dont give up a 3bet pot on an A high flop v's a LAGTard with KK easily. Against the right opponent I'd c/c 3 streets, depends just how stabby he is. Against guys who hate to give up I'd bet flop for value. I know lots of villains who wont fold TT+ on that board.
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Just playing to improve.
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bad imo
I bet the flop and check it down to the river, probably getting a call from QQ/JJ on the flop and he's not going to turn it into a bluff by firing on the turn and river
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Benoso
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wales, UK
Posts: 157
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I think that when our cbet is called we're not gonna have a clue where we are, whether he's called with an Ace or with a pair that we beat. So we'll be OOP, building a huge pot and with little info about our opponent's hand.
I think he'll barrel the turn enough to give us a headache too, the only hands I can see him checking behind are like QQ-JJ, I think he fires an Ace again (unless maybe it's a really weak one, but we can somewhat discount this given preflop action) and complete air like SCs that plain missed. I suppose the only turns we like are Ks and As too.
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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There isn't a problem with the line you took as you certainly will be able to find a better spot against a player like this. But I think the way you played it generalizes your game as placing an emphasis on scared play in general.
If I played the hand, two bets would be going into this pot before I considered folding, either I would bet the flop expecting to be called by all kinds of nonsense, then would be c/c the turn to pick up value from his random floats, then C/F the river IF he decided to bet the river, as I doubt if you call turn he ever puts you on anything weaker than an ace and shouldn't ever expect you to fold the river.
OR I'd check flop expecting to call at least two bets. One on flop, then one also on turn, and I wouldn't expect fish to have the stones to fire the 3rd one. Though also his bet sizing will be very easy to read.
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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I like c/c 2 streets vs fishy/lagtard. They will show up with worse soo much and you will induce.
I hate betting flop here vs a lagtard; he can float us successfully and may fold a lot of air that may push you out.
folding here is criminal imo, the most important consideration is getting value from his air range
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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idk i think c/f may be fine here
certainly is versus someone who bluffs rarely
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tbdbitl
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 12
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I've found when I have been faced with this, if I do not C-bet out of position here, I get exactly the bet you faced 90 % of the time. By throwing out a c-bet I feel I can control the size of the pot and betting.
I think he has position and used it when you gave him the idea that the Ace on board could be a scare card to you.
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