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zook
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09-02-2007, 06:36 PM
Post subject: KK line-check 140bb deep
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Villain seems like a decent regular, is 24/20/3.3 over a lot of hands. I have some notes on him, he's capable of calling 3-bets ip and floating flops, raising c-bets and folding to 3-bets, generally seems solid, maybe a tiny bit on the spewy side.
Turn was a tough decision, I'm having trouble finding hands I get value from except AQ, which I expect him to 3b preflop. Maaaybe KQ, but doubtful. If I bet and get c/r'ed then his range is polarized to sets and flush draw semi-bluffs and I have a really tough decision this deep. River is a verrrry thin value bet. Probably too thin. Thoughts?
Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Holdem Ring game - Blinds: $2/$4 - 5 playersConverter
Stack sizes:
Hero: $673.80
CO: $488.50
Button: $419.60
SB: $550.50
BB: $103
Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with K  K 
Hero raises to $14, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.
Flop: 3  Q 7  ($42, 3 players)
SB bets $34, BB folds, Hero raises to $120, SB calls.
Turn: 8 ($282, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.
River: 9 ($282, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $150
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Bet the turn, call a shove.
River is thin but not too thin depending on your image.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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The only reason i'd check the turn is if i was raising the flop a ton and suspected a float.
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Vi-Zer0Skill
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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I like a check behind on turn because you will be able to extract a larger river bet against more of his calling range on the flop if a heart misses the river.
But i like a river bet, as long as you think he isn't capable of a bluff c/r or checking with a flush. Since i don't play 2/4 idk how often you would see him do that, though.
btw at what limit do you start to expect your opponents are capable of a river c/r? I haven't seen any river check/raises by my opponents in nearly 20k hands of 1/2 at Pokerstars; am i just avoiding the best players?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
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Vi-Zer0Skill
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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To ISF/Massimo: How much do you think making a bet on the turn narrows zooks' range? I would expect villain's range to be Q-x/FD/set, which puts us solidly ahead. If we bet the turn we are folding out a lot of hands we are beating.
Even though we are giving a free card to a significant portion of his range, if a heart bricks i would expect villain to lead a missed flush some of the time, and c/c a lot of Q-x hands for a large river bet. To me we would be getting more value by checking the turn, since if we did bet we would be obligated to call a shove when we could expect to be drawing dead a good percentage of the time.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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In my experience at 2/4 people never fold so i dont think we fold out much at all.
I think we get the same value from Qx if we bet here than if we check and bet river.
Obviously we want to bet versus flush draws.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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bet turn
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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thelipkin
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 49
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I think the key to this hand is deciding what his turn check was. It can only be what, a heart draw, a float, AQ or a set? Isn't it best to bet now against that range, because on the river only AQ gives you favorable action, sometimes?
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Vi-Zer0Skill
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
In my experience at 2/4 people never fold so i dont think we fold out much at all.
I think we get the same value from Qx if we bet here than if we check and bet river.
Obviously we want to bet versus flush draws.
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Okay if we aren't folding out really any of his range then i can see why a bet on the turn would be best. I hope someday i will play 2/4...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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Seems like you have to bet the turn. Why did you check?
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mixchange
Why did you check?
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For value and pot control. I thought a bet folded KQ and a lot of heart draws, and the hands I would get action from would c/r me AI for another 50BB+ (some draws and sets). If I thought that I could instacall a c/r, I would have bet turn no question. And maybe I should call a c/r here.
Not sure what ISF is talking about no one folding at 2/4. I think that pre-flop can be spewy aggro at 2/4 and certain regulars get crazy on certain flops, but turns and rivers are played very standardly.
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