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asdpikas

06-25-2008, 03:16 AM Post subject: KK hand

#1 (permalink)

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wanna puke on the river... should i call?

$0.1/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($25.00)
CO ($24.73)
BTN ($26.79)
SB ($25.00)
Hero ($78.77)

Pre-flop: ($0.35, 5 players) Hero is BB

1 fold, CO calls $0.25, 1 fold, SB calls $0.15, Hero raises to $1.25, CO folds, SB calls $1

Flop:

($2.75, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.25, SB calls $2.25

Turn:

($7.25, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River:

($7.25, 2 players)
SB bets $5, Hero ?????????

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thizzSantaCruz

06-25-2008, 03:50 AM

#2 (permalink)

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bet turn. as played call river.

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pankfish

06-25-2008, 04:19 AM

#3 (permalink)

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You have to call.

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will641

06-25-2008, 05:02 AM

#4 (permalink)

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this is a pretty easy call. i actually dont mind the turn check, but only if you plan on calling a river bet on a non spade, or vbet if checked to.

ofc the above only really applies to when you are playing much more aggressive players. if hes pretty weak/passive then i double barrel.

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asdpikas

06-25-2008, 06:04 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by will641

that was my plan, i thought he may have the 5, so was trying to induce his river bet, but the 5c river killed that thought...
i actually folded, thanks for the replies, i should've called

will641

06-25-2008, 06:32 AM

#6 (permalink)

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hm. i didnt even notice the river made 2p on the board. that changes a lot of things. then this is probably a fold.

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Galapogos

06-25-2008, 06:36 AM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by will641

hm. i didnt even notice the river made 2p on the board. that changes a lot of things. then this is probably a fold.

Yeah I fold here. Shitty board. Since no reads were given, I definitely bet the turn though.

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kmind

06-25-2008, 06:38 AM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

Quote:

Originally Posted by will641

hm. i didnt even notice the river made 2p on the board. that changes a lot of things. then this is probably a fold.

Yeah I fold here. Shitty board. Since no reads were given, I definitely bet the turn though.

minSim

06-25-2008, 07:26 AM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by will641

hm. i didnt even notice the river made 2p on the board. that changes a lot of things. then this is probably a fold.

Could you explain in more detail why this exact river card making 2p changes a lot?

- Is it just the board making 2p?
- Or is it particular the flop's 2nd pair pairing? Is a 5 really a substantial part of villains range?
- Are you callling a 2

river?

thizzSantaCruz

06-25-2008, 08:32 AM

#10 (permalink)

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Min, the 5 improves his calling range a lot on the flop. He is probably calling with any pair, FD, 5 and 9 and maybe overs. I would usually call a bet by him here on the river thinking he could be value betting a worse pair, but maybe I'm wrong here. Sounds like most everyone thinks its a fold.

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nutsinho

06-25-2008, 08:51 AM

#11 (permalink)

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this is a fistpump snap fold

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Fnord

06-25-2008, 09:12 AM

#12 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

You beat a bluff, how often is he bluffing here with a pocket pair, Ax or a couple big cards?

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minSim

06-25-2008, 10:27 AM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz

Maybe I'm not great at doing probability on the fly, but with your perceived flop calling range of any pair, FD, 5, 9, and maybe overs, how is the 5 hitting that range hard?

(fwiw, I'm with you that a 2pair on the board might open villains betting range, hoping A high to call....or him even thinking A high is good enough to valuebet...or some worse PP. But even then I think villains betting range here is beating us too often....I'm just not sure the river 5 changes that around).

nutsinho

06-25-2008, 10:53 AM

#14 (permalink)

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it doesnt 'change things around', it just means that there are new value betting hands that beat us in addition to 9x and flushes. He almost certainly would not value bet/bluff with a worse made hand.

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minSim

06-25-2008, 10:59 AM

#15 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by nutsinho

I agree.

Do I understand you well that not changing things around means we're folding a 2

river as well?

(with 'changing things around' I meant will it make villains range cross the breaking point of us being able to call or not...I'm not sure it was interpreted like that)

nutsinho

06-25-2008, 11:42 AM

#16 (permalink)

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yeah i think a blank river would be a fold as well vs this bet size. that's why i just b/f turn (get value from pp's with spade, possibly 5x) and check back river

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asdpikas

06-25-2008, 12:20 PM

#17 (permalink)

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hmmm... then i guess my fold was probably right
During the hand, with no reads, when he completes sb and then calls, i'm thinking PP or SCs.
call on flop may be FD, PP or 5
i check turn as FD is completed, so i wanna keep the pot small, and i also induce bets from UI PPs and 5s on river
river comes, and now all i can beat is bluffs and UI PPs
size of bet does not give good odds

was the check on the turn bad?
is the thinking process more or less correct?

thanks for the comments
asd

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Numbr2intheWorld

06-25-2008, 05:46 PM

#18 (permalink)

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i think you can bet/fold the turn and be happy

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will641

06-25-2008, 06:48 PM

#19 (permalink)

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my only complaint about b/f the turn is that what is he calling with on the turn that he called with the flop that doesnt have us beat? i.e. i doubt we get call from a 5 unless its accompanied with the As, and i doubt many mid pp's call us. and thats pretty much all we beat at this point. there are virtually no T's in his range.

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cardsman1992

06-25-2008, 07:44 PM

#20 (permalink)

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I'm having trouble figuring out what the river changes. There can't be a ton of 5s in his range. If we were beat on the river we were beat on the flop/turn.

I think this is:

1) flush 50% of the time
2) 9x another 20% of the time
3) bluffs at your weakness and Ax thinking they would split 19.5% of the time
4) 5x .5% of the time.....

You don't get pot odds to call based on that, but you sure make life easier by betting the turn.

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