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minSim
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02-01-2009, 08:28 PM
Post subject: KK - 4bet get's called and I hit a set, where's the value?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Villain was playing 59/2/1.4 (8% 3bet fwiw) over 83 hands.
Is my line reasonable to get some value out of QQ/JJ(/AK?)?
Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer Game#24496234803
SB ($74.65)
BB ($50)
UTG ($10)
Hero ($62.70)
CO ($49.95)
BTN ($89.65)
Dealt to Hero K K
fold, Hero raises to $1.75, fold, fold, SB raises to $4.50, fold, Hero raises to $11, call,
FLOP ($22.50) A8 K
check, check,
TURN ($22.50) A8K5
check, check,
RIVER ($22.50) A8K55
SB bets $3.50, Hero raises to $12.50
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Andypandy
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Middle of Norway
Posts: 154
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8 on flop (pot 38.50), 16 on turn (pot 70.50), 28 on river.
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Larsmars: "I folded Aces today, I can't remember last time I did it, it must have been like half a year ago."
Andypandy: "Preflop??"
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Andypandy
8 on flop (pot 38.50), 16 on turn (pot 70.50), 28 on river.
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this is a good line or you can check back flop then bet enough on turn to shove river. I would set it up so my river shove was less than 3/4 pot.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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A very important concept is that if you have the nuts and there are a lot of second best hands that are likely to pay you off, it makes little sense to play it slow. If you have the nuts and hardly any second best hands are out there, more of your value comes from checking to induce bluffs or let other people improve.
In this hand you hit a set in a 4-bet pot but there's an ace on the flop. If the SB has one, being the poor player that he is, he's very likely to give you his entire stack if you keep betting. If he has a lower pair then he probably won't give you much money unless he hits a 2-outer. If the flop had been K55 then very few hands could pay you off so slowplaying would have made more sense.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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this might be one of the worst hands i have ever seen. i feel like i am going to explode after reading this.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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Why aren't you all-in by the river? If you had AA, there might be a point in betting the flop small or even checking, but wth is this? You think his range is AK+, QQ, KK, AA only because he's 50/2 over 80 hands?
I don't get this at all. You're playing a hand with a huge donk, you have a set and you're not betting. I don't get it.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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The value is in betting, not checking.
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griffey24
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02-02-2009, 03:17 AM
Post subject: Re: KK - 4bet get's called and I hit a set, where's the valu
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#8 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by minSim
Villain was playing 59/2/1.4
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value is here.
You're not gonna induce from a passive station to bluff you on any more hands that he's going to call you with. So the value, as has already been stated, is from betting.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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nadgobxe
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2
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after that agressive pre flop play i dont understand why did u check it till the river  . U didnt valued so good this situation!
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Well....here are some twisted thoughts;
at the time I basically thought villains range was made of TT-QQ/AA mostly, some AK, maybe AQ.
I expected AQ/AK to bet the turn always and we'd be getting it in in 2 streets, and by checking I hoped to get one street out of TT-QQ somewhere.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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W
O
W
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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BigLRIP
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: BC
Posts: 194
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checking the flop is fine, but you have to bet the turn to set up a river shove.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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checkin flop is NOT fine
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Da GOAT
checkin flop is NOT fine
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+1
This isn't a reg, or a nit or a tagg.
This is a DONKKK
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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Yeah seriously man, I haven't seen a lot of sets so far this year, and it kills me to see one wasted like this. Even a donk can see he's beat on the river. Betbetbet. They like their aces.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Yeah lol, I admit this is really bad.
I was just doing a session review yesterday and didn't went over this one very crititally myself. And I really have to lower my amount of tables!
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