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Halv
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10-19-2007, 09:40 PM
Post subject: KK 3bet pot OOP, turn pairs Q (2/4)
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#1 (permalink)
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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Villain runs 33/17, aggro postflop. Don't remember him having shown down anything, really. I haven't been 3-betting lots, this is the first significant pot we've played together.
My stats are pretty tight, but my image might be a bit crazy after I sqeezed K2s in the blinds vs 3 ppl and had to call a shortie's shove (yeah, I've made a post-it note reminding me to watch stack sizes!). This was a while ago, though, and I've shown down a few reasonable holdings since.
No IQ poker 2.00/4.00, hand converted by the iPoker Converter at Talking-Poker
Button ($641.80)
Hero ($514.00)
BB ($400.00)
UTG ($292.00)
UTG+1 ($255.30)
CO ($398.20)
Preflop: Hero is in the SB with K K
3 folds, Button raises to 16.00, Hero raises to 56.00, 1 fold, Button calls 42.00.
Flop (120.00) Q  T 5
Hero bets 100.00, Button calls 100.00.
Turn (320.00) Q
HalvSame (356$ left to play for)
Also, bet sizing?
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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I like repping AK and shoving
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Genitruc
I like repping AK and shoving
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 no better hand folds and no worse hand calls.
c/f I think 
I raise a little more pre-flop b/c stacks are deepish, but I know gabe and others hate that. Really it's fine though.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
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"no better hand folds and no worse hand calls. "
they dont think you have Q, and if u had AA you wouldnt shove on the Q, so they call with JJ and 99 or whatever
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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I disagree
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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i can see JJ or 99 calling a shove but im not sure that i like a shove even if they do possibly call.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EzDuzIt
i can see JJ or 99 calling a shove but im not sure that i like a shove even if they do possibly call.
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what's not to like about it?
you can balance by doing it with draws (including AK)
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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and also I think lots of thinkers will call a shove with 99 or JJ but not a standard 2nd barrel
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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c/s flop as played c/s turn
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Halv
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pro crastinator
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My plan was to shove a blank turn to stack Qx/JJ, but the turn card made me freeze. I'm not really convinced shoving the turn is good now that Qx beat me along with AA/TT, I suspect that he doesn't call often enough with JJ or 99 alone. I do agree that an open shove seems best if I want to put more money in on the turn though. As a side note I think I could benefit from making the flop bet full pot, giving me slightly less than pot for the turn shove and also earning me a little bit extra the times he's planning to call once with a mid pair.
I ended up checking planning to call his shove or shove river myself, but he made a small bet instead (around half pot). At that point I should've either shoved or folded, as he's not betting the river with worse after I call. After checking I think I like a fold since he's probably gonna try to get to showdown with JJ- so his range for betting the turn is probably something like {floats, Qx, boats} with floats not being all that likely.
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
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C/r ai flop is also interesting, though I suspect he's gonna pot control alot with lesser pairs, and it seems there are lots of turn cards that we aren't thrilled about?
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
I disagree
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if you were villian and had JJ, and hero pushed this turn, what would you do??
im not saying this is the case here but you gotta consider this approach
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by HalvSame
C/r ai flop is also interesting, though I suspect he's gonna pot control alot with lesser pairs,
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he sounds like he's bad aggro, meaning i doubt he probably ever does this
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
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c/f, I don't think we beat anything.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
c/f, I don't think we beat anything.
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...?
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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TrAdam5
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 49
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
c/f, I don't think we beat anything.
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Well, I don't know about anything (he could have jj, a 10, 99, some other crap, but I generally agree. I definitely don't like shoving here, when he calls you are WAAAYYYYY behind his calling range imo. And its not like you have any fold equity against better hands either. I would check to him, and see what he does. If you have some sort of betting size tell on him from previous hands it might help you decide then whether to fold/call (without a read on this its probably a fold though if he makes any substantial bet, this is a pretty bad spot for kk).
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