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KK 10nl Ever any value here?

  
 
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Ragnar4
Old 09-02-2008, 06:59 AM     Post subject: KK 10nl Ever any value here? #1 (permalink)  
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Villan is mentally retarded PF, calling tons of hands, but likes to c/r the river with 2 pair and ugly 4 card straights and whatnot.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($9.10)
CO ($5.55)
Hero (Button) ($19.70)
SB ($14.80)
BB ($9.05)
UTG ($9.95)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K K
UTG calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, SB calls $0.35, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.30) 9 Q 8 (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $1.25, SB calls $1.25, 1 fold

Turn: ($3.80) 7 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($3.80) 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $3.80 | Rake: $0.15
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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Ragnar4
Old 09-02-2008, 07:04 AM #2 (permalink)  
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($10.45)
MP ($4.70)
Hero (Button) ($25.20)
SB ($20.10)
BB ($9.60)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K K
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, SB calls $0.25, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.90) 3 J 8 (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $0.20, Hero raises to $1.30, 1 fold, BB calls $1.10

Turn: ($3.50) A (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($3.50) 7 (2 players)
BB bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50

Total pot: $4.50 | Rake: $0.20


Apparently it's not my night for kings with dangerous boards and whatnot Not gonna lie the ace froze me I have no reads on villain. his 2nd hand.

Also, I'm being a table bully, I'm afraid he's sitting down with the intention of trapping me.
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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Fnord
Old 09-02-2008, 07:10 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Hand 1: 50c pre-flop (it makes a big difference), I open for 3x but isolate bigger because I'm repping such a stronger hand and want to get the pot big. Plus I'm usually playing one pair hands in spots like that. I'd value-bet the river or maybe the turn depending on how capable he is of playing back with a worse hand.

Hand 2 is fine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Ragnar4
Old 09-02-2008, 07:12 AM #4 (permalink)  
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($19.50)
MP ($27.20)
CO ($10.15)
Button ($21.50)
Hero (SB) ($12.30)
BB ($10.30)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K K
3 folds, Button raises to $0.30, Hero calls $0.25, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.90) 5 J K (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, Button checks

Turn: ($0.90) 5 (3 players)
Hero bets $0.50, 1 fold, Button calls $0.50

River: ($1.90) J (2 players)
Hero bets $1.80, 1 fold

Total pot: $1.90 | Rake: $0.05

More KK madness. Solid reg. playing 25/10 or something like that.

Shouldn't he be betting here? I wanted to checkraise.
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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Jack Sawyer
Old 09-02-2008, 07:16 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnar4
Preflop: Hero is SB with K K
3 folds, Button raises to $0.30, Hero calls $0.25
wat





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Ragnar4
Old 09-02-2008, 07:21 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnar4
Preflop: Hero is SB with K K
3 folds, Button raises to $0.30, Hero calls $0.25
wat





dude
oh yeah, oh yeah, I'd 3-bet him a few times. he wtfsnapfolded all 3 times.
I wanted value out of my superior hand.
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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Fnord
Old 09-02-2008, 07:21 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Dude, what's your SB 3-bet range look like?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Fnord
Old 09-02-2008, 07:22 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnar4
oh yeah, oh yeah, I'd 3-bet him a few times. he wtfsnapfolded all 3 times.
I wanted value out of my superior hand.
You had him all teeded up.... It's EXACTLY after this dynamic some "solid reg" ships it in with AQ/JJ/TT against me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Ragnar4
Old 09-02-2008, 07:24 AM #9 (permalink)  
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In that spot, just about any ace. any two wheelhouse cards, and any PP TT+ Unless I think my opponent is crushed and I'm tired of him folding when I'm ahead of his range.
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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Ragnar4
Old 09-02-2008, 07:25 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnar4
oh yeah, oh yeah, I'd 3-bet him a few times. he wtfsnapfolded all 3 times.
I wanted value out of my superior hand.
You had him all teeded up.... It's EXACTLY after this dynamic some "solid reg" ships it in with AQ/JJ/TT against me.
LOL so I leveled myself?
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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Fnord
Old 09-02-2008, 07:25 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnar4
In that spot, just about any ace. any two wheelhouse cards, and any PP TT+.
wat?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Fnord
Old 09-02-2008, 07:26 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnar4
LOL so I leveled myself?
Yup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Ragnar4
Old 09-02-2008, 07:26 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnar4
In that spot, just about any ace. any two wheelhouse cards, and any PP TT+.
wat?
my 3bet range when a solid reg blindsteals.
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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Ragnar4
Old 09-02-2008, 07:29 AM #14 (permalink)  
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While we're on the topic. When I'm in the SB and the BB, with a pair of 2's... call or fold to a standard raise? I usually call for sethunting.. but I'm getting tired of being OOP with a terribad pair.
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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Fnord
Old 09-02-2008, 07:33 AM #15 (permalink)  
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You really need to read up and think hard about blind defense. These are all solved problems.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Ragnar4
Old 09-02-2008, 07:42 AM #16 (permalink)  
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sounds fair.
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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Ragnar4
Old 09-02-2008, 08:15 AM #17 (permalink)  
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Just checked theory and practice.. didn't see anything other than Calling AI when your opponent shoves while you're in the blinds...

Any reccommendations of books that may have a good foundational setting?

I do remember spenda remarking in one of his videos that micro NL is not a game of blinds like limit.

That having been said, I've always felt like the blinds were a weakness, but couldn't make much of it because I've always been told "everyone loses money at the blinds"
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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Fnord
Old 09-02-2008, 08:53 AM #18 (permalink)  
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No one has published a guide to online blind defense because not many online short-handed players have published material.

For what it's worth, either I run very hot or do very well with blind defense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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lolzzz_321
Old 09-02-2008, 12:03 PM #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnar4
In that spot, just about any ace. any two wheelhouse cards, and any PP TT+ Unless I think my opponent is crushed and I'm tired of him folding when I'm ahead of his range.
!?!?!?
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lolzzz_321
Old 09-02-2008, 12:07 PM #20 (permalink)  
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I'll give you a hint, too wide, and some of the hands are uh, suboptimal!

FWIW I feel blind defense is lol over rated, esp if u are getting called ip frequently
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Jack Sawyer
Old 09-02-2008, 06:06 PM #21 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triptanes
FWIW I feel blind defense is lol over rated

yup
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Fnord
Old 09-02-2008, 06:20 PM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triptanes
FWIW I feel blind defense is lol over rated
yup
I couldn't disagree more. I make a lot of my earn fighting over blinds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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dsaxton
Old 09-02-2008, 09:31 PM #23 (permalink)  
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The river is a must bet in the first hand.
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Ragnar4
Old 09-03-2008, 03:46 AM #24 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsaxton
The river is a must bet in the first hand.
Really? because I can't really stand a raise there, and kinda wanna see the showdown.
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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Fnord
Old 09-03-2008, 06:17 AM #25 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnar4
kinda wanna see the showdown.
So does he.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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minSim
Old 09-03-2008, 07:12 AM #26 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triptanes
FWIW I feel blind defense is lol over rated
yup
I couldn't disagree more. I make a lot of my earn fighting over blinds.
Defending your blinds or stealing them?

I've felt like stealing blinds is as much about having position and initiative postflop then it is about stealing the blinds. But you know more about this than me, and most.
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bjsaust
Old 09-03-2008, 07:12 AM #27 (permalink)  
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It takes a special kind of villain to chase a draw and then check two streets when he hits.
Just playing to improve.
 
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Kagey
Old 09-04-2008, 06:48 AM #28 (permalink)  
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Didn't someone write a small article, something about defending the blinds with small/ medium pairs? I seem to remember it saying that if you are playing 25/22, 20/18, 16/14 etc that your flat calling range is extremely narrow, making it very difficult to get paid off on your sets. There are 2 ways to solve this 1 is good, 1 not so good I believe.
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mixchange
Old 09-04-2008, 08:05 AM #29 (permalink)  
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if you don't know how to defend blinds its not profitable....

if you know what's going on, many players are clearly exploitable and it can be very profitable. If you read Fnord's posts it seems like he is excellent on pounding on parts of players games they a lot of weak or marginally profitable players will just give up in regards to.

if you are bad at the blinds and just want to make money and be nitty thats fine, but take say 1 out of 5 sessions where you reduce tables and concentrate harder and try to figure out what is going on. especially helpful is someone attempt to steal blinds stat in a hud. goldmine. some players are stealing 40% and cbetting 100% of the time when checked to. a solid player is suddenly a fish you're playing oop all the time and you can make life hell for them...

vs. player with steal too high you can mix up:
1) call and donk 1/2 pot
2) c/r flop
3) check call flop lead turn
4) check call flop check raise turn
5) c/c c/c lead river if you have a decent piece

he has it so rarely and with his range so soft he folds a lot
of course plays are variable on board texture/history/image etc.


---------------


on the OP I would raise PF (as others said especially because he had folded a bunch and could possibly be sick of it. He's usually ready to play a marginal holding at this point, unless he's a complete and utter nit)


as played you need to bet turn bet river... so what the flush hit turn, he has it rarely and you have the Ks and with his limp I highly doubt he has a suited ace. So confidently get value all 3 streets.
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minSim
Old 09-04-2008, 08:57 AM #30 (permalink)  
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good post mixchange
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