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K high flush on a paired board

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Numbr2intheWorld

12-28-2006, 06:03 PM Post subject: K high flush on a paired board

#1 (permalink)

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Numbr2intheWorld will become famous soon enough

maybe i played this badly... The villan is 19/2 over 200 or so hands. I'm just thinking to myself... "uhhh fullhouse?"

POKERSTARS GAME #7642130330: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/12/28 - 03:52:36 (ET)
Table 'Fanatica II' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: redgrape ($68.95 in chips)
Seat 2: larryab ($57.60 in chips)
Seat 3: vancruise ($29.75 in chips)
Seat 5: l0l3rsk8z ($53 in chips)
Seat 6: donnyboom ($17.35 in chips)
donnyboom: posts small blind $0.25
redgrape: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to redgrape [Th Kh]
larryab: calls $0.50
vancruise: folds
l0l3rsk8z: folds
donnyboom: calls $0.25
tincup77 joins the table at seat #4
redgrape: checks
*** FLOP *** [Qh 8h 3h]
donnyboom: checks
redgrape: bets $2
larryab: calls $2
donnyboom: folds
*** TURN *** [Qh 8h 3h] [8d]
redgrape: bets $4.50
larryab: raises $4.50 to $9
redgrape: calls $4.50
*** RIVER *** [Qh 8h 3h 8d] [6d]
redgrape: checks
larryab: bets $46.10 and is all-in

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kmind

12-28-2006, 06:24 PM

#2 (permalink)

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I'd say either a higher flush (Axs) or a full house. Seems to wake up after that second 8. Maybe pocket 3's or Axs? You don't need my help but I'm just going to guess anyways =)

Silly String

12-28-2006, 07:34 PM

#3 (permalink)

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His low PFR % makes this difficult b/c any PP is possible. Unless you have a history of him bullying people, I fold.
Raise flop to get value from anybody with 1 high heart.

Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.

IowaSkinsFan

12-28-2006, 07:36 PM

#4 (permalink)

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A call is soooo hard here.

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dsaxton

12-28-2006, 07:48 PM

#5 (permalink)

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I think you're better off betting the river and folding to a push.

andy-akb

12-29-2006, 04:24 AM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dsaxton

I think you're better off betting the river and folding to a push.

Agreed and this is exactly what I was going to say. By checking we are inviting him to bet here and we really dont know his hand strength. A boat is definitely possible, but so are some other hands. I personally would make a smallish [1/2pot or less] river bet and fold to a raise as an opponent like this is simply not going to be bluff raising this river and I think there is a decent chance we get some value from a worse hand.

Genitruc

12-29-2006, 05:38 AM

#7 (permalink)

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Genitruc is an unknown quantity at this point

instacall if there were ppl limping before him

instafold as played since the only hands a 19/2 can have here after open-limping are suited aces and 8888 or 33388. 19/2 is simply not open-limping J9s as much as Ax suited 33 and 88.

if others had limped up front he'd be more likely to have something like 7s9s

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

12-29-2006, 05:49 AM

#8 (permalink)

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against a 19/2 easy fold me thinks, as Genitruc stated above

EDIT: Guys that are *that* tight preflop will not be putting their money in postflop without the nuts. I know, I used to be one of "those guys."

IowaSkinsFan

12-29-2006, 04:30 PM

#9 (permalink)

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This HH proves that Preflop stats can sometimes say nothing about someone postflop.

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12-29-2006, 04:54 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

This HH proves that Preflop stats can sometimes say nothing about someone postflop.

And sometimes they can say quite a lot, really.

19/2. He never raises preflop b/c he is only raising PREMIUM hands. Most guys like that will not be raising postflop either WITHOUT PREMIUM HANDS. He raised twice, once on turn and then on river...

His river bet is huge which means it COULD be a bluff, but from past experience dealing with these guys.....this USUALLY isn't a bluff.

P.S. I'm not a fan of relying heavily on preflop stats to determine my play. Some people on this forum try to use them in every decision they make, others use them as a crutch to get them through a session. I think they should just be used as just an extra piece of information, no more no less.

Numbr2intheWorld

12-30-2006, 12:51 AM

#11 (permalink)

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I folded and he showed QT. I'm confused on whether it was a bluff or not... i kind of think it was since he showed.

I underepped my hand so badly, i kinda let him do it to me.

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Genitruc

12-30-2006, 02:07 AM

#12 (permalink)

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whatever

that's just a weird hand don't beat yourself up about it

so the guy limps QT from early position? Weeeeeeeird...

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

Genitruc

12-30-2006, 02:10 AM

#13 (permalink)

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btw

I don't use a hud but regarding the "preflop stats mean nothing" comment :

umm. they do mean something. they allow us to ascribe a range of possible holdings to players. they are't postflop reads. but to say that knowing that the dood is 19/2 doesn't help determine the best play is ridiculous. \

the guy made a crazy bluff that was even crazier based on his tight preflop image. most of the time this is a good fold.

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

12-30-2006, 03:51 AM

#14 (permalink)

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90% or more of the time this is a good fold

move on, next hand.

gabe

12-30-2006, 06:04 AM

#15 (permalink)

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gabe is an unknown quantity at this point

this is an instacall, dont post results so fast

IowaSkinsFan

12-30-2006, 06:07 AM

#16 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

This HH proves that Preflop stats can sometimes say nothing about someone postflop.

I said sometimes, I know preflop stats are the absolute bomb, I was not ragging on them at all. There's just sometimes those moments where someone is a complete rock but raised 58o.

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Genitruc

12-30-2006, 07:53 AM

#17 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

This HH proves that Preflop stats can sometimes say nothing about someone postflop.

I said sometimes, I know preflop stats are the absolute bomb, I was not ragging on them at all. There's just sometimes those moments where someone is a complete rock but raised 58o.

agreed my bad

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

IowaSkinsFan

12-30-2006, 04:37 PM

#18 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

this is an instacall, dont post results so fast

Lol it's funny when everyone says it's a fold and the one player who's arguably better than everyone else says call. Care to explain your reasoning?

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gabe

12-30-2006, 04:54 PM

#19 (permalink)

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he has a k high flush and the other guy hasn't played his hand like a set that makes a boat (or maybe Q8)...i would be worried about a higher flush sometimes of course but this can be other stuff too.

Genitruc

12-30-2006, 11:31 PM

#20 (permalink)

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what other stuff can it be from a tight preflop player gabe? besides a stone cold bluff?

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

Galapogos

12-30-2006, 11:47 PM

#21 (permalink)

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I fold. This looks like a scared player that flopped his set. Calls and gets his boat. Then on the river goes all-in because he's praying you can't fold a flush. I recognize this poor 50NL logic well, there seems to have been an abundance of this players at the 100NL tables lately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.

aislephive

12-31-2006, 04:42 AM

#22 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

An overbet shove like this is always a nut type hand from this player or a bluff. I'd call a smaller bet because it's more likely he plays a smaller flush in that manner, but I can't see him overbet pushing a small flush. I think a fold here is pretty standard against this kind of player.

gabe

12-31-2006, 04:53 AM

#23 (permalink)

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disagree

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K high flush on a paired board

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