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nickthefool
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09-25-2007, 02:14 AM
Post subject: JJ vs tighty?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: here
Posts: 338
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Had about 50 hands on villain who has 6% vpip with 4% pfr, all i've seen him showdown is QQ where he raised pre, then went bet/check/bet on J high board. Should I be calling purely for set value preflop here?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
saw flop|saw showdown
UTG ($25.50)
MP ($14.35)
CO ($33.10)
Villain ($23.95)
SB ($46.10)
Hero ($30.20)
Preflop: Hero is BB with J , J .
3 folds, Villain raises to $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.75.
Flop: ($2.10) 7 , 2, 9 (2 players)
Hero ???
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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hes a nit...i would say 3bet pre. His range here probably is something like 99+ AQ+. If he calls bet/fold flop or fold to a 4 bet.
He might even be too nitty for that but I really don't expect someone at low stakes to have the patience to play so little hands.
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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3 betting sux vs this guy imo
just set hunt cuz he ll never fold an overpair
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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c/c and go from there.
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snowbird4life
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 246
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set hunt and c/c unless he goes nuts and shoves or something
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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dont 3bet pre. His range is nowhere near wide enough to get enough value to balance out how much you lose to AA/KK/QQ.
I c/c flop and look to showdown cheap after that.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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I far prefer bet/fold here. Does anyone else? It will fold out a whiffed AK/AQ which are definitely in his raising range. I will c/f if called. If he's this big of a nit, he won't float me & I don't get any value from c/c since he probably won't cbet. At 6/4 he's is playing his own cards.
I definitely don't 3bet pre.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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Set it or forget it.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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nickthefool
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: here
Posts: 338
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silly String
I far prefer bet/fold here. Does anyone else? It will fold out a whiffed AK/AQ which are definitely in his raising range. I will c/f if called. If he's this big of a nit, he won't float me & I don't get any value from c/c since he probably won't cbet. At 6/4 he's is playing his own cards.
I definitely don't 3bet pre.
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Will it? I find often nitty players preflop play like they have AA post flop with their whole raising range (i've seen a fair few with less than 10% vpip call a push on flop with AK/AQ). My only info on his post flop play is based on one hand (QQ bet/check/bet undercards board) and that one he was oop so it may not even be relevant to this one.
Anyway, i did this...
Flop: ($2.10)  ,  ,  (2 players)
Hero checks, Villain bets $1.5, Hero calls $1.50.
Turn: ($5.10)  (2 players)
Hero ???
Check again or take a stab? I think betting here folds ak/aq a lot more often than leading flop does, but pretty sure we don't fold anything we are ahead of, so we lose more than bet/fold flop line vs those hands.
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The poker gods love me really, they are just testing my faith !
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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I'm 3betting here all the time PF. 50 hands means nothing and he's OTB. If you're aware enough to realize he is this tight you should be c/f'ing the turn/river against this player.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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We have to 3-bet this preflop. If he reraises pre, fold. If he calls lead flop and see what he does.
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nickthefool
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: here
Posts: 338
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
50 hands means nothing and he's OTB.
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Do you ever get reads in a session or do you just rely on playing your cards?
If someone plays 3 hands in 9 orbits of 6-max, i think it's safe to assume that they are a lot tighter than the average 6-max player. Is this wrong?
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The poker gods love me really, they are just testing my faith !
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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If you find nitty players that bet/check/bet QQ as an overpair and then will felt a whiffed AK post flop, then I got a story to tell you about how I am really the father of Anna Nicole's baby.
Yes, a good bet should fold missed overs in this situation. This guy is so tight that he doesn't realize he is giving up edges by playing too tight. In other words he will fold AK, and felt AA here.
As played, I fold to a turn bet. If you did not make a play on the flop, donk betting the turn looks like a bluff or exactly what you have(a semi-strong hand that you can easily be pushed off of). You are probably behind this nitty of a player anyway, just check the turn and hope he does his stupid bet/check/bet value line again and you hit a J on the river.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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What do people think about check-raising the flop and checking it down if you get called? It might let him play perfectly but I'm not sure if that matters because a nit of this magnitude isn't going to bluff the turn very often at all. The c-bet is probably all you'll get out of him if he has AK.
I don't know, I haven't played against guys like this in awhile.
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nickthefool
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: here
Posts: 338
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I checked, he checked behind, i start thinking there's a decent chance i'm ahead and he has ak/aq but river was an A so i check/folded.
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The poker gods love me really, they are just testing my faith !
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
What do people think about check-raising the flop and checking it down if you get called? It might let him play perfectly but I'm not sure if that matters because a nit of this magnitude isn't going to bluff the turn very often at all. The c-bet is probably all you'll get out of him if he has AK.
I don't know, I haven't played against guys like this in awhile.
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i think this is the way to go, if not c/f ing the flop. 50 hands is enough to say hes rocky, so protect/value-bet your hand on a safe flop, or stack him if you set-up, instead of reraising pre.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
What do people think about check-raising the flop and checking it down if you get called? It might let him play perfectly but I'm not sure if that matters because a nit of this magnitude isn't going to bluff the turn very often at all. The c-bet is probably all you'll get out of him if he has AK.
I don't know, I haven't played against guys like this in awhile.
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i love a c/r on this flop vs a nit. We arent getting anything else out of him after the c-bet, and he probably folds to the c/r, but he might call and look for a cheap showdown which i will gladly give him.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by nickthefool
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
50 hands means nothing and he's OTB.
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Do you ever get reads in a session or do you just rely on playing your cards? |
Do you ever read these forums, or just rely on pre-conceived notions when making your posts?
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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4% is 99+,AQ+. 3bet preflop.
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
4% is 99+,AQ+. 3bet preflop.
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i all ready said this but no one listens.
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nickthefool
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: here
Posts: 338
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Quote:
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Originally Posted by nickthefool
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
50 hands means nothing and he's OTB.
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Do you ever get reads in a session or do you just rely on playing your cards? |
Do you ever read these forums, or just rely on pre-conceived notions when making your posts? |
Sorry i realised that sounded like i was just trying to insult you. I wasn't.
And yes, i do read the forums, though not as much as i would like and probably not as much as you. I rarely post though.
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The poker gods love me really, they are just testing my faith !
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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edit: post deleted because i am a moron. 
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz
Quote:
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Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
4% is 99+,AQ+. 3bet preflop.
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i all ready said this but no one listens. |
sorry to ask/point out this again, but why?
w/ JJ, you are only 50/50 against this range. wheres the value? and there cant be any FE here. plus, when he shoves over you, you are absolutely crushed and spent a lot more money pre than you needed to.
just take a flop, right? and try and bully him once he missed?
i like b/f on flop, and i reluctantly fire the 2nd barrel because the deuce pairs, but i'm out after that. and, i am not dumb enough to fire at the A on the river against this guy if he called two streets.
what does c/c get us? no info, and a terribly weak image. it has to cost about the same as leading, unless villain leads very softly. i would prefer to have the initiative against a nit, because i feel i can bump them off better hands than other types of players...which i may desperately need to do here.
and, fwiw, i dont think c/ring gets us a fold here. if he bets the flop, he aint folding to a raise with this tight a range pf. like i said, the only reason i fire the turn again is the 2. otherwise, i c/f turn.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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NLHE lahooozaher
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 916
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chopper
w/ JJ, you are only 50/50 against this range. wheres the value?
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You're not 50/50 vs. that range due to hand combos. Def. value in raising.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
647,250,912 games 0.005 secs 129,450,182,400 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 50.184% 49.22% 00.96% 318570540 6243024.00 { JJ }
Hand 1: 49.816% 48.85% 00.96% 316194324 6243024.00 { 99+, AQs+, AQo+ }
looks like 50/50 to me.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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