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I Like Pie
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07-30-2007, 01:04 PM
Post subject: JJ in re-raised pot & JJ in a war with the BB
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 399
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Villain here is 22/10/6 over 58 hands
Do I fire again hoping he has AT, he MIGHT have 99 or 88 I guess but that's about all I'm beating. How do you proceed?
Quote:
Party No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed)
Hero ($318.58)
UTG ($276.25)
MP ($389.59)
CO ($218.85)
Button ($94.70)
SB ($219.35)
Preflop: Hero is BB with J , J .
1 fold, MP raises to $8, 1 fold, Button calls $8, 1 fold, Hero raises to $25, MP calls $18, Button calls $18.
Flop: ($79) T , 5 , 7 (3 players)
Hero bets $52.58, MP calls $52.58, Button folds.
Turn: ($184.16) 2 (2 players)
Hero...
Final Pot: $184.16
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Villain is 22/13/3 over 115 hands and seems competent
You usually 4-bet in this situation or does it really depend on the villain?
Quote:
Party No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed)
UTG ($180)
MP ($311.45)
Hero ($199)
SB ($234.35)
BB ($191)
Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J.
2 folds, Hero raises to $7, 1 fold, BB raises to $27, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises to $77
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Bonus hand, does this guy ever have anything other than AA here?
Villain running 32/10 over 54 hands, I can't remember anything specific about him but I didn't get the impression he was a strong player.
Quote:
Party No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed)
UTG ($161.95)
MP ($193.95)
CO ($202)
Button ($224.10)
Hero ($210.20)
BB ($182.40)
Preflop: Hero is SB with K, K.
1 fold, MP raises to $8, 1 fold, Button raises to $16, Hero raises to $40.2, 1 fold, MP folds, Button raises to $84, Hero...
Final Pot: $89.41
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Hand 1: Mostly b/f, maybe sometimes c/c
Hand 2: Villains history and stats are important. AK is probably in his range, so I like calling. OOP I'm more towards 4-betting.
Hand 3: Hmm...well AA vs KK is so rare that I just can't fold. Villain COULD be doing it with QQ or some AK maybe....at least I hope.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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hand 1: standard
hand 2: i call the 3bet and get it in on a undercard flop.
hand 3: he could have KK, and maybe AK, but unlikely. i usually just bite my tongue and push in these situations, but i'm guessing at 200NL ppl aren't stacking off preflop with JJ anymore.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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1. stamdard
2. I still cant get a real handle on party so i wek fold this. Opps dont reraise AK a lot so against a semi-fishy/average player this is a fold but against a better play who may felt AK we'd need to look it up. Fold, but with QQ here id have no idea.
3. Easy baby, push.
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I Like Pie
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 399
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
2. I still cant get a real handle on party so i wek fold this. Opps dont reraise AK a lot so against a semi-fishy/average player this is a fold but against a better play who may felt AK we'd need to look it up. Fold, but with QQ here id have no idea.
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Really? you think his range is as tight as QQ+ here?
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Vi-Zer0Skill
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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Hand 1). Reraising a bit more PF, particularly when OOP, makes playing the hand after the flop easier. You may also take the pot down PF, which with a middle pair OOP isn't such a bad thing. As played it is tough to know whether villain was floating with 8-8/FD or has flopped a set. I c/f the turn.
Hand 2). I call the 3bet PF, and raise any non Ace/King high flop, willing to play for stacks on a board with almost any kind of draw against someone with a PFR >10%, since they usually don't 3bet only J-J+/A-K. If i were going to 4bet a 3bet from the blinds vs. my button raise, i would prefer to do so with a hand that has the best possible equity against a 4bet calling range and has little showdown value. Pocket pairs 6-6 - 9-9 are optimal against a 4bet calling range of Q-Q/A-K, which i feel is reasonable for a button vs. blind battle. The reason that i would 4bet these pairs and not J-J is because these pairs are much more difficult to play on the flop, since flops tend to contain 2 overcards more often when you hold 6-6 than when you hold J-J.
But if you feel villain will only call a 4bet with K-K+ you should 4bet A-xs. Also you should 4bet for a smaller amount, like to $55-60.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
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WildBobAA
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: lol i dunno
Posts: 1,811
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
2. I still cant get a real handle on party so i wek fold this. Opps dont reraise AK a lot so against a semi-fishy/average player this is a fold but against a better play who may felt AK we'd need to look it up. Fold, but with QQ here id have no idea.
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Wow you're really folding JJ on the button vs a BB 3-bet? Seriously? It seems like you're losing a ton of value.
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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1) I think I may bet larger on the flop so that I can make a less awkward shove on the turn
2) Against a player like this I really think I am going to just be calling a 3bet here the vast majority of the time. Against someboyd much looser I may 4bet here, but I dont really think it is standard against most opponents at all unless they are super aggro and we are calling a shove.
3) Most of the time he will have AA, but we have a decent amount in PF and the guy doesnt seem like a great player. Just shove.
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I Like Pie
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 399
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On hand one, looking back I really don't know why I raised to $25, in that situation I usually make it $28-$32.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill
But if you feel villain will only call a 4bet with K-K+ you should 4bet A-xs. Also you should 4bet for a smaller amount, like to $55-60.
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I don't think that 4-bet is strong enough. If he's making it $27, raising it to $55-$60 is just like a mini-raise and he's not folding to that.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by I Like Pie
I hand one, looking back I really don't know why I raised to $25, in that situation I usually make it $28-$32.
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Yeah at least 32.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by WildBobAA
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
2. I still cant get a real handle on party so i wek fold this. Opps dont reraise AK a lot so against a semi-fishy/average player this is a fold but against a better play who may felt AK we'd need to look it up. Fold, but with QQ here id have no idea.
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Wow you're really folding JJ on the button vs a BB 3-bet? Seriously? It seems like you're losing a ton of value. |
my mistake, thought we were sb.
yeah def 4bet on button with jacks.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
my mistake, thought we were sb.
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that just makes me want to 4-bet more...
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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I'd think someone holding a 10 would raise this flop on you. I might wuss out and fold turn here. Check/call, definitely not a good spot to bet imo
hand 2
I just call here, I enjoy having position and JJ is a pain to play, and the 4bet means you are basically playing for stacks
Hand 3 I fold like a pussball unless I have a read. Seems over 50% of my AA all ins are against KK, so I'm trying to pick more spots with KK PF where I have a good read on my opponent
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I Like Pie
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 399
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Results:
Hand 1: I check, he bet $110, I folded
Hand 2: He shoved over my $77 bet, I call, my JJ held up vs his AK
Hand 3: I actually had QQ, I just wanted to see what people would do with KK. I folded, you see AA there about 95% of the time IMO.
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