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JJ Preflop, being played back at

  
 
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Alibi
Old 07-13-2006, 03:34 AM     Post subject: JJ Preflop, being played back at #1 (permalink)  
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The following hands were played in direct succession: Since the pots did not go to showdown, it is possible that villian in the last hand was playing back with a wide range. Villian is also kind of fishy -- winning lots of pots but seems kind of loose and I'm not sure that he knows the value of position.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($21.85)
Hero ($75.60)
UTG ($8.25)
MP ($38.95)
Button ($84.70)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9, 9.
UTG calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises to $3, UTG calls $2.50, MP calls $2.50, SB folds.

Flop: ($9.50) 8, T, 3 (3 players)
Hero bets $6, UTG folds, MP folds.

Final Pot: $15.50

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($21.35)
Hero ($81.65)
BB ($5.25)
UTG ($35.95)
MP ($84.70)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, A.
UTG calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, UTG calls $1.50.

Flop: ($4.50) A, 8, 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $4, UTG folds.

Final Pot: $8.50


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP ($21.35)
Hero ($83.95)
SB ($4.75)
BB ($33.95)
UTG ($84.70)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J.
1 fold, MP calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.5, SB calls $2.25, BB raises to $10, MP folds, Hero ...
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mcatdog
Old 07-13-2006, 04:42 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Easy push, I would never ever fold JJ against a short stack if I've been raising a bunch of hands in a row and he suddenly plays back at me. I've seen people turn over Q5o in this situation.
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johnny_fish
Old 07-13-2006, 04:06 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I'd fold, but it's close. I guess I would push if he had less than 40-50bb.
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Miffed22001
Old 07-13-2006, 04:42 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 id push this i think. With QQ its a non decision to push here with his stack, with TT its a pretty strong arguement to fold. JJ ofc is the messy middle ground.
Crying call, thinking its probably a great call.
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dwags222
Old 07-13-2006, 04:48 PM #5 (permalink)  
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i agree, i've seen short stacks raise w/ some bad hands, last night i had a shorty 3 bet all in a-10 suited preflop after i reraised w/ jj...and i see shorties make horrible plays like this all the time.
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Irisheyes
Old 07-13-2006, 05:38 PM #6 (permalink)  
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I don't like to push because, fair enough he could 3bet you with a weaker hand, but once you push I don't think a weaker hand (TT or AK) will call enough.
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Alibi
Old 07-13-2006, 06:19 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Is calling and hoping for unders or a set out of the question?
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Ravageur
Old 07-13-2006, 06:27 PM #8 (permalink)  
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You're not getting odds to play this for a set. I think it's a push or fold. Calling here is a mistake I think as it gives him the opportunity to outplay you on the flop when he pushes regardless.
I think a fold is in order here unless you know he's a donk.

Lately in the midst of a dowswing I keep thinking that people are playing back at me when I've raised several hands in a row etc. or shown continued agression and I've proceeded to donk away chips with top pair. Thing is, most opponents aren't aware enough to notice the table dynamics and are just concentrated on their cards. I think it's -EV to make a decision based on your table image until you're playing much higher limits.
Am I way off base here?
Is that foolish?
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Miffed22001
Old 07-13-2006, 06:34 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 in isolation, this hand is a pretty easy fold. In the scenario given i think we have to consider being played back at, and also whether or not players at these stakes will give a damn if you raise 4 or 5 hands in a row.
If there is no sitautional awareness, as we might argue exists at 50nl then its an easy fold.
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Irisheyes
Old 07-13-2006, 08:24 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
in isolation, this hand is a pretty easy fold. In the scenario given i think we have to consider being played back at, and also whether or not players at these stakes will give a damn if you raise 4 or 5 hands in a row.
If there is no sitautional awareness, as we might argue exists at 50nl then its an easy fold.
They notice if you raise alot in a row alright. Not if you raise 2 hands an orbit though. Remember these guys wan't to gamble, they're attracted to playing against maniacs.
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gabe
Old 07-13-2006, 08:51 PM #11 (permalink)  
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this is not a clear cut answer. go look at the previous hands, see what hes done. if he started with 100bb then lost it, push, if he has won lots of pots, push.....otherwise if he is just 50bb playing tight then fold
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