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07-03-2009, 07:49 PM
Post subject: JJ overpair in 3b pot faces PFR c/r?
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#1 (permalink)
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I only have like 46 hands on the guy, but he's been raising and 3bing very actively (over this small sample he has like 15% but that's not indicative of anything)
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($90.15)
MP ($147.20)
CO ($130.30)
Hero (Button) ($279.50)
SB ($100)
BB ($125.40)
Preflop: Hero is Button with J , J
3 folds, Hero bets $3, SB raises to $12, 1 fold, Hero calls $9
Flop: ($25) 5 , 8, 3 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $18, SB raises to $88 (All-In), Hero ?
It just seems like such a value line from say QQ+
but then I'm like what if he does this with a flush draw
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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calling all day vs active unknown
also a lot of players will do this with a draw a lot more than a made
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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What's teh point of the call pre? And then again what is your plan when betting this flop? Golden rule applies, "if you don't know what your going to do if raised, you can't bet"
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Yeah why not 4bet/getting it in pre?
As played I'd probably bet half pot or less on the flop.
Fwiw I think this is diamond overcards a lot, and I remember seeing sets a few times from overactive players. Don't think you can really fold with almost 1/3 your stack in now.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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FWIW I am not saying it's a wrong call pre, but I don't see calling and having a hard decision here. I would probably check behind and get it in on most non diamonds. With reads I am probably happy to call this shove to.
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,518
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Board: 5d 8c 3d
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 41.824% 40.71% 01.11% 103992 2835.00 { JJ }
Hand 1: 58.176% 57.07% 01.11% 145758 2835.00 { 88+, AdKd, AdQd, AdJd, AdTd, Ad9d, KdQd, KdJd, KdTd, QdJd, QdTd, JdTd }
If he's been active and can probably throw some spazzouts in there too the call becomes even easier. Take out the pairs we beat and our equity isn't good enough without random spazzouts.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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His range of you is a lot wider than JJ. He has hero on AJ, KQs and tons of PP's and SC's. You need to count his FE that he thinks he has here in his shove range. What hands does he expect you to call a 3bet with that can call this flop shove?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jyms
What's teh point of the call pre? And then again what is your plan when betting this flop? Golden rule applies, "if you don't know what your going to do if raised, you can't bet"
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the point is to gain the amount of the cbet if he's bluffing by raising the flop like this one
but c/r as pfr is a ghey line
I knew what to do vs. the raise when I bet, but I'm not sure I was correct in that thinking
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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I'm not betting into this flop if he's raising/folding
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Just 4bet get it in vs a compulsive 3bettor. JJ doesn't play too hot postflop, and an aggro player like this will give you a headache on a lot of boards with overcards that come.
As played, whyyy are you betting almost pot? I'd bet like 12ish on this board if i was gonna bet.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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you guys think he's a compulsive 3bettor, but in reality over 46 hands he's probably 3 bet like 5 times or something
and yeah, sure I can get it in pre
but that doesn't solve my flop question
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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You already seen the stove of the flushdraw and 88+? what's the question?
And FWIW, that is a compulsive 3better. Even 4 times over 45 hands is 9% on a table with no reads. I 4bet AQs, 88+ and bluffs. This gets even wider with reads.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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meh he's probably not 3betting 88-TT all that much
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surviva316
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
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yeah but how could any thinking player be making this play for any reason other than to maximize FE.
it just seems like a retarded way to play QQ+, and in the off chance he has a set he's absolutely minimizing his chances of getting an overpair's stack, not to mention he's giving you a chance to get a free card. and his diamond over card range is pretty wide.
of course we have no reason to dismiss the possibility that he's a drooler who's saying "weee i have queens"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.  |
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
Board: 5d 8c 3d
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 41.824% 40.71% 01.11% 103992 2835.00 { JJ }
Hand 1: 58.176% 57.07% 01.11% 145758 2835.00 { 88+, AdKd, AdQd, AdJd, AdTd, Ad9d, KdQd, KdJd, KdTd, QdJd, QdTd, JdTd }
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range should def. include 33 and 55
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jyms
You already seen the stove of the flushdraw and 88+? what's the question?
And FWIW, that is a compulsive 3better. Even 4 times over 45 hands is 9% on a table with no reads. I 4bet AQs, 88+ and bluffs. This gets even wider with reads.
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for all you know he could have just picked up QQ+,AK 5 times in 46 hands and 3b bluffed like 3 times
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jyms
I'm not betting into this flop if he's raising/folding
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this post tilts me for some reason. This answer seems all high and mighty, but OP said its a 46 hand sample. There is no fucking way we have this info on villain.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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The real question is what to do pf. You cannot call pf then fold this flop, just can't. If calling pf is good then getting it in here is good, if calling pf is bad then getting it in here is bad.
Even though it's 45 hands, the likelyhood that villain gets dealt monsters 5 times is really low, so the likelyhood that he is indeed an active 3bettor increases.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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definitely calling but would definitely be 4bet getting it in pre a huge majority of the time. button sb dynamic in todays games is fucking bat shit retarded and people are shoving with really weak hands to 4bets.
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