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JJ, OOP, big button raise

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griffey24

02-16-2007, 03:06 AM Post subject: JJ, OOP, big button raise

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Hey guys,

Just wanted some feedback on this pocket jacks hand I had today. Any better lines would be appreciated.

-villain in this hand is solid overall, and 24/18/2 over 600 hands
-how is the preflop 3-bet? should I just flat call button's big raise?
-after having my PF raise called, should I check the flop/bet less?
-the turn is just pot committed central?

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $88.02
UTG+1: $86
CO: $98.50
Button: $124.25
SB: $111.25
Hero: $113.25

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with

UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Button raises to $9, SB folds, Hero raises to $26, 2 folds, Button calls.

Flop:

($54.5, 2 players)
Hero bets $42.5, Button calls.

Turn:

($139.5, 2 players)
Hero ??

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griffey24

02-16-2007, 01:01 PM

#2 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

<bump>

Is this painfully standard?... or just painfully bad?

Kagey

02-16-2007, 01:20 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Dec 2006

Posts: 158

These situation confuse me. Generally I'd chuck the Jacks pre-flop. Looks like he's given you enough rope to hang yourself. Any advice on the flop bet would be useful. Do you really want to build such a big pot?

Doublethe7

02-16-2007, 01:32 PM

#4 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 66

his realtively large pf-raise makes me a bit suspicious, looks like protecting a big PP against those early limpers. does he put you on a big PP after your reraise, whats your reraising range against him?

assuming he knows, he's drawing very thin for set-hunting, i guess you will often see here AA,KK from villan maybe sometimes AhKh, QQ.

i wouldnt have reraised him pfreflop, your flop bet imho is also a bit too high. i guess you'll find out if your beaten with a $30 bet, too.
as it was played it's hard to give this up, as already a large protion of your stack is in. i would check / fold the turn and only sometimes make a crying call depending on opponent/your table image.

___________________________________
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zook

02-16-2007, 05:07 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Posts: 3,676

I play it the same and push turn.

Renton

02-16-2007, 05:12 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,992

just call pre. Your reraise has no point. It's not for value (because JJ doesn't destroy his range), and its not for isolation since he already took care of that. As played push turn but be beat.

zook

02-16-2007, 05:20 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

It's not for value (because JJ doesn't destroy his range)

JJ is definitely ahead of the range of a 24/18 button raiser and it makes little sense to play this for set value when eff stacks are 12x raise size.

Renton

02-16-2007, 05:31 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by zook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

It's not for value (because JJ doesn't destroy his range)

JJ is definitely ahead of the range of a 24/18 button raiser and it makes little sense to play this for set value when eff stacks are 12x raise size.

Its probably slightly ahead of his range, or about even with it. Its definitely not way ahead, unless villain makes this monstrously large raise with his entire 30 something percent raise range.

Theres no point in folding out so much of villains range that we're dominated by it. Better to just call and evaluate on the flop. You aren't calling purely for set value, as there is unimproved value after the flop.

Reraising here is like saying "Im pretty sure u have a big hand, so I think i want to commit myself vs the part over your range that has me beat, while taking the pot uncontested vs the part of your range that i have beat."

zook

02-16-2007, 05:44 PM

#9 (permalink)

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If you think this monstrously large raise means a premium hand, then you really are playing for set value, unless he's incredibly transparent when he misses post-flop.

I'm wondering if we should slow down after he makes the huge raise and calls our 3-bet. How terrible is checking this flop?

jackvance

02-16-2007, 05:50 PM

#10 (permalink)

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jackvance is an unknown quantity at this point

Agreed with renton.. his PFR means it's either total crap trying to get cute or a big pair. By reraising u fold out the crap part..

Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity

griffey24

02-16-2007, 05:55 PM

#11 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Ok so suppose I flat call his raise preflop.

This is a pretty good flop for me. Am I leading this flop, or am I check-calling villain all the way down and hope that no scary over cards hit?

zook

02-16-2007, 06:00 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

Agreed with renton.. his PFR means it's either total crap trying to get cute or a big pair.

When post-flop is a solid player in position going to tell you which it is? Before or after you've risked $17 more?

Renton

02-16-2007, 06:07 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

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Quote:

Originally Posted by griffey24

Ok so suppose I flat call his raise preflop.

This is a pretty good flop for me. Am I leading this flop, or am I check-calling villain all the way down and hope that no scary over cards hit?

you are probably going to take a c/c c/f line or a c/c b/f line or maybe a c/c/c/c/c/c/c/c/c line.

jackvance

02-16-2007, 07:29 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by zook

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

Agreed with renton.. his PFR means it's either total crap trying to get cute or a big pair.

When post-flop is a solid player in position going to tell you which it is? Before or after you've risked $17 more?

Depends whether you think it's crap and you want to trap him, or that he is for real so you want to set-hunt.. by reraising you get the worst of both worlds imo

edit: I reread and it says he's solid, is a real hand almost always then.

Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity

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JJ, OOP, big button raise

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