|
Fnord
|
12-21-2006, 11:55 AM
Post subject: Jager vs Fnord
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
Jager is tight pre-flop, ABCweakish post-flop.
Fnord is playing some lower stakes late night because he wants to gamble a little. He's running 30/20ish over a small smaple size.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Button ($254.50)
SB ($82.60)
BB (Fnord) ($90)
UTG (Jager) ($101)
MP ($84.55)
CO ($98.50)
Preflop: Jager is UTG with 9  T
Jager raises to $4, 4 folds, BB (Fnord) calls $3.
Flop: ($8.50) T , 2 , J (2 players)
Fnord checks, Jager bets $5, Fnord pretty quickly calls $5.
Turn: ($18.50) 8 (2 players)
Fnord thinks.... checks, Jager checks.
River: ($18.50) 4 (2 players)
Fnord bets $15, Jager calls $15...
How'd he do?
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
Renton
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
|
|
oops
|
|
|
|
jazzzik
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Krakow , Poland
Posts: 26
|
|
I could have believed you, that you've hit str8 in here... but I'm a poor player :P
After rethinking I guess that I would be more eager to believe your str8 if a 7 or Q came on turn . 8 doesn't look like you had OESD before (unless you called PFR with Q9).
|
|
|
|
bode
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
|
|
this smells like a low/med pp like 55-77
|
Quote:
|
eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
|
|
|
Galapogos
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
|
|
I think he won this. The river bet looks like a bad player trying to make up for value he missed on the turn or a good player trying to steal it. He knows you're the latter and if he's tight preflop and basic postflop he must have had AJ or an overpair and checked the turn because he wanted some pot control.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
|
|
|
Renton
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
|
|
oops
|
|
|
|
Warpe
|
|
12-21-2006, 04:12 PM
Post subject: Re: Jager vs Fnord
|
#7 (permalink)
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
|
|
Read, people. It's Fnord's hand we don't know.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fnord
Preflop: Jager is UTG with 9 T
|
I think Jager's river call is fine if Fnord's splashing around a bit. What was Fnord's plan if Jager bet the turn instead of checking behind, I wonder?
|
|
|
|
andy-akb
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
|
|
How tight can he be if he is raising T9s UTG? Maybe he is mixing it up, I dunno, regardless its fine, just curious about the tight comment.
I dont think this is bad. I personally dont like the flop bet, but as played I think he should be calling the river bet.
|
|
|
|
Lukie
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
|
|
I'm not really a big fan of jager's call here. His flop bet is sorta weak though and the check back on the turn is either a sign of pure weakness or pot control with the intention of inducing on the river (obviously the plan knowing the cards).
This looks like a straight value bet from fnord into a tight player in EP (even the biggest of nits will occasionally raise hands like this and there's nothing wrong with still labeling them a tight player for whoever brought it up).
I'm ignoring the timing tells which, at first impression look like fnord being strong but trying to act weak.
|
|
|
|
gabe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
|
|
i guess hes hoping you had KQ?
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by gabe
i guess hes hoping you had KQ?
|
AK/AQ are in his range too.
I'll let Jager post results.
|
|
|
|
elipsesjeff
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
|
|
I probably don't make this call. Even though you tend to play loose I doubt you're playing anything than AJ or a pocket pair from the position you are in. Then again, that would be only 'standard' so maybe i missed something.
|
Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
|
|
Jager
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
|
|
So there seems to be a mix of thoughts as to how I played this.
I put him on EXACTLY what he had a lower PP. Fnord turned 44.
DId Fnord put Jager on his hand???
|
|
|
|
gabe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
|
|
so why would fnord ever bet the river with a pair that didnt set?
|
|
|
|
Jager
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
|
|
To steal...
|
|
"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."
|
|
Warpe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by gabe
so why would fnord ever bet the river with a pair that didnt set?
|
To blow Jager off what his turn check attests is a weak holding. If Fnord hadn't been splashing around a bit I don't think Jager makes this call.
|
|
|
|
zenbitz
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Warpe
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by gabe
so why would fnord ever bet the river with a pair that didnt set?
|
To blow Jager off what his turn check attests is a weak holding. If Fnord hadn't been splashing around a bit I don't think Jager makes this call. |
The only thing he is possibly folding that beats Fnord (who Jager puts on 22/33/55/77/44) is some middle pair like 9X 8X TT. And clearly THAT assumption is false, since that's exactly what he had and he didn't fold.
So Fnord is either value betting or bluffing, therefore Jager's read was wrong on the river, although it was correct on the turn. But his call is probably fine, since it's totally reasonable for Fnord to take a stab with air since missed overs is a wide part of Jager's range.
Whew.
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
If the river is a deuce, I think the river is an easy check.
Flop was a loose call, sometimes I do that to see how people are playing and $5 just wasn't selling me that he hit anything here. I should probably just c/r more flops although JTx is a pretty terrible flop to put lots of money in on without much of anything.
I seriously considered a turn bet or c/r, hence the hesitation. The 8 was an interesting enough card and I wasn't playing this hand to showdown once I make the flop call.
|
|
|
|
gabe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
|
|
fnord never has air here. he probably never bets with a small pair too. betting with a low pair here sucks, as does calling the flop with it. both of you could have played this better.
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jager
DId Fnord put Jager on his hand???
|
After the turn I'm putting you on:
33-77, 99, Jx or Tx with a broadway, KQ, AQ, AK. %5ish all sorts of other crap. 5%ish some weird slow played monster or AA/KK gone scared on the turn.
Really easy river bet of around pot as you're going to showdown a lot of 1 pair hands you priced in by checking the turn.
|
|
|
|
elipsesjeff
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
|
|
I find whenever I try to be a hero here and make this call, I'm always fucked. I don't think villain is bluffing enough to call with middle pair no kicker, esp without a read.
|
Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
|
|
Jager
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fnord
I wasn't playing this hand to showdown once I make the flop call.
|
This statement alone makes my river call solid. This was not a hero call. Just because I put Fnord on a small pp does this mean I am suppose to fold if Fnord bets when a 2,3,4,5,6, or 7 comes on the river? I believe Fnord has the ability to think that if he held 55 that it could be good here or that he may bluff this river.
|
|
|
|
johnny_fish
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
|
|
I don't like the call. Bad players will bluff here, but Fnord usually wouldn't.
I don't like the float oop.
|
|
|
|
Lukie
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
|
|
It's not really a float OOP, because he is good on the flop here a lot. It's still probably a loose call but nothing unforgivable.
|
|
|
|
gabe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
|
|
if i were jager i would bet the turn, but as played fold the river. if i was fnord, check/calling the flop is the last thing i would do. 44 is far behind the range of jager and there arent many cards fnord can bluff AND hes oop.
|
|
|
|
Genitruc
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
|
|
looks like Jager lost this hand to me
|
|
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
|
|
AHiltz
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Coldbrook, NS
Posts: 1,589
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Genitruc
looks like Jager lost this hand to me
|
Quote:
|
I put him on EXACTLY what he had a lower PP. Fnord turned 44.
|
Caption Obvious to the rescue 
|
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
06-02-2012, 08:10 PM Merge Network 6.0 Looks to Retain Current Player Base
Linear Mode
