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Jager
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07-09-2007, 08:43 PM
Post subject: I've isolated the problem...
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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I have a real hard time winning money from the 20/5, 30/10, 40/5... limp call preflop guys. I raise to isolate, but they don't fold and I have a hard time pushing them around postflop. I never seem to know where I am with these guys. I am looking for suggestions to help with this. I am thinking about raising more preflop when I have position(maybe 5x or 6x). I think this will help further my isolation, 'cause everyone else plays with the fishes too, and lowers their odds/ makes me get paid easier with TPTK type hands. Is my theory here flawed, and what other things should I do to get the $$?
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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quit cbetting when you whiff.
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snowbird4life
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 246
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I play with these types of passive retards alll the time, probably more than any other type of players. It seems simple to say, but just play abc poker against them. Honestly, abusing position i dont think will help you out that much, although it will help. Just use the basic bet your good hands hard, and dont bluff them, unless you hit DO NOT second or three barrell, its just total spew against these guys.
They are going to call whenever they hit top pair, and their going to chase their draws to the end of the earth. So if you cbet,(which you should prolly do less often on scary flops) and they call and theres no str8/flush draw out, give up. If you have a solid hand like tptk or overpair and theres two to a flush out there, bet it hard, even overbet it occasionally because they will call chasing it.
Another thing, i dont know if this is a flaw with me, or a way i beat the passive idiots, but in position like the button, when its limped to me, i often just call with a decent hand instead of raising, because usually, raising wont do anything as they will just call your bet bc they are so passive, then you will all see a flop with more of your money in the pot. And because of their passivity unless you nail the flop, you don't have much to go on because they will call with such a broad range of hands.
Any other Q's let me know as i play these types of donks sooo often.
btw it might help if you wanna post some hh's or examples against these players and we can give u some advice
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Stop isolating with Axs, scs and small pocket pairs and instead limp them behind.
Snowbird, keep in mind these are guys who've adapted to isolate + c-bet lines. They've stopped folding so darn much and pick reasonable spots to fight back.
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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The tables I play are mostly 40+/5 guys. Just raise premiums and PPs and value bet when you hit post flop. If you're shown any aggression from their end fold without a really good hand. Also, get in cheap in position with speculative hands because these guys will call stupid big value bets when you hit huge.
I used to lose so much money trying to push these guys out of pots too. There's a lot of them around actually. I'm not suprised anymore when I bet preflop get called, and then am called down by KK.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Stop isolating with Axs, scs and small pocket pairs and instead limp them behind.
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this was the first mistake i stopped making against them.
The second was trying to raise draws against them for free cards, they just keep peppering the pot like flies over shit (which is cool when we raised a set/two pair/tptk on them in position)
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Jager
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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Stop isoalting with Axs, scs, and small pairs. Then v bet them to hell? I think I can handle that. Is there any value in my thought about isolating them hard with your good hands, or they just won't call enough down postflop to make it profitable?
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"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jager
Is there any value in my thought about isolating them hard with your good hands, or they just won't call enough down postflop to make it profitable?
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my problem the 30/15 and 40/5 type players have been they always call down light. so vbet them to death. you just gotta be careful with your bet sizes to not bloat the pot too big. that or bloat it really big. you don't want it in the middle where your decisions are hard.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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isolate constantly in position and profit
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
isolate constantly in position and profit
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isnt this going against most advice in this thread.
Another leak can bet river betting, bluffing scare cards on river or just trying to take it down vs them is a leak since they will call anyway figuring river bets have high chance of bluff % so they CALL.
Ive foudn this anyway, basicaly pushing ppl out on the river or trying to cost me so much vs these guys.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Da GOAT
vs these guys.
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This is the key. Don't try to out-spew spew monkeys. You get maxium value keeping lots of money behind and tending to value bet more often than you bluff (you still need to bluff sometimes.)
It feels sickening giving them basically every flop you miss, but between the silly calls and raises they spew it all back to you with interest.
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