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I've changed my game, need post flop advice

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pokerl

07-13-2007, 11:08 PM Post subject: I've changed my game, need post flop advice

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2007

Posts: 2

Hi everyone, I've recently started playing again after having a 1.5 year break. Last time I played I multi tabled micro stakes and got bored. This time I've moved up a bit in stakes, play only one table at a time and play almost exclusively short handed. I feel it improves my game a lot when I can concentrate on one table to improve reads and post flop play. However, I know I've still got tons to learn about post flop play. These two recent hands I have a hard time deciding how to play and if I play them correctly. Any advice is appreciated!

#1
Villain just arrived at the table, played like one orbit. This is the third hand in a row I raise preflop, so he's seen me raise like 3 hands out of 5.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($99)
BB ($131.90)
Hero ($108.45)
MP ($98.70)
Button ($160)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A

, A

.
Hero raises to $3.5, MP calls $3.50, 3 folds.

Flop: ($8.50) 4

, Q

, 6

(2 players)
Hero bets $6, MP raises to $18, Hero calls $12.

Turn: ($44.50) 6

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $25, Hero raises to $86.95 (All-In)

#2
In this hand, my read on villain is that he limps alot of hands preflop and generally plays passive postflop. I've played TAGG by the book. Comments on my preflop complete is also appreciated here.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($100)
UTG ($43.95)
MP ($80.55)
Button ($119.70)
Hero ($99)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3

, T

.
UTG calls $1, 1 fold, Button calls $1, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($4) 3

, 6

, T

(4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $3, UTG folds, Button calls $3, Hero raises to $8, BB calls $5, Button folds.

Turn: ($23) 4

(2 players)
Hero bets $12, BB calls $12.

River: ($47) 7

(2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $40

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sauce123

07-13-2007, 11:18 PM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: Dizzy

Posts: 2,405

hand 1- leading turn is much much better against strong players

hand 2- leading flop is much better against all players

I got more flava than fruitstripe gum

mixchange

07-14-2007, 02:27 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: San Francisco, CA

Posts: 1,665

I like Hand 1. I put villain on AQ, and your check looks normal after getting re-raised on the flop. You can pretty much guarantee he will bet, and it's a great time to push as he's got half his stack in the pot and seems committed, as if he thought he was ahead on flop he's calling.

Hand 2, in a multiway pot gotta lead this. Turn needs to be full pot.

pokerl

07-14-2007, 09:13 AM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2007

Posts: 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

hand 1- leading turn is much much better against strong players

Hmm, I never lead the turn after calling a reraise on the flop. It's a play I have thought not to make sense. I must re-evaluate my standpoint here. Do you prefer leading the turn to re-re-raising the flop? If so, why?

I am assuming you recommend leading the turn because check raising it looks ultra strong and only gets called by hands that beat us? If we lead the turn he will probably call with top pair and possibly also call a river bet with a similar hand. However, if we are re-raised we are pretty sure we are behind and can fold and save half our stack. Is my reasoning here correct?

I agree I should have lead the flop on hand #2, that check is just stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixchange

Hand 2, in a multiway pot gotta lead this. Turn needs to be full pot.

I often have a very hard time deciding about bet sizes on the turn. Here I did not want to bet too much on a dry board to push him out of the pot. Can you please motivate why it'd be better to bet full pot here? Is it for protection when there's a straight draw there or is it to get more value from worse hands? Or something else I don't even understand?

As played on hand #2 what about the river? The play puts us in a terrible decision there and I'd appreciate opinions.

Fnord

07-14-2007, 09:17 AM

#5 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

The flop in hand 1 is draw heavy enough that we should seriously consider a 3-bet to set-up a turn push.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Ace isTrumps

07-14-2007, 10:32 AM

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2007

Posts: 23

Hand 1. Fold... 3x raise means i have 2p or better 95% of the time. Remember mate, these guys are rotten players in general, until you hit 5-10 level, give them credit unless you have a strong reason not to, like your notes telling you otherwise, you got to fold. If it's a FTR player, i'd also be inclined to stay around.

Hand 2. Fold the river, you are beat. If he had 10-x, he has no reason to try and steal, i'm positive even a donk would check for a free showndown here. There's nothing you can beat to a strong river bet and even if you were ahead here and called and won, "long term" you WILL LOSE in the same situations. Not to mention you can check here with a 5 to try and induce a bluff in future to keep observent tricky opponents honest but thats a different topic.

This is my last post on FTR, looking at the way you guys play, it defeats the purpose of playing poker if i'm trying to educate people who i hope to win money off at a later stage.

Good luck Pokerl with your new vested interest in poker. My advice to you is, stay agressive, but know when to excersise caution. The over agresive pot sized C-betting, trying to push people off hands with mediocre holdings etc that all these wannabes advocate is easily exploitable and remember sometimes you got to fold the best hand. No reason to get involved in big pots in iffy situations, your oppoents will give you ample opportunity to cripple them when you are pretty certain your ahead...All the best.

andy-akb

07-14-2007, 07:42 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Maine

Posts: 1,836

1. Without stats on this player, I would probably
fire again on the turn because we cant really be
sure that he is going to bet again because he could
have been raising a draw and then check behind
for a free card or just not want to build a huge pot
with a weak Q. So yea, Id fire this turn again and
call a shove or just shove most rivers if he only
calls the bet

2. I just dont think this play is profitable at all PF,
just fold and be done with the hand. On this flop, Im probably
leading, but I dont think a c/r is bad because if nobody
bets there arent all that many draws you are worried about
giving free cards too. However, if you are going to c/r,
you need to make it a real raise. That raise would be small
even if the button hadnt called, with button in the pot, we need
to make it much larger. At full tilt just press the pot botton
and make it somewhere around that size. On the turn we again
need to be betting larger. On this river I would most likely
c/c as a 5 wouldnt make a ton of sense [you said he is passive,
so he wouldnt be playing a draw this "hard"] but I would say that
he is more likely to bet here than he is to call a bet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace isTrumps

Rabble rabble rabble

This is all horrible.

Ace isTrumps

07-15-2007, 03:37 PM

#8 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2007

Posts: 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-akb

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace isTrumps

Rabble rabble rabble

This is all horrible.

Ok ok last post now...

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............

See one day instead of shooting your mouth off constantly splurting drivel with your loser advice, you might actually sit back and pay attention to what winners have to say....

Yawn, off to the winners circle with my mighty 240 dollar win... cough....

ps. Yes i know it's church money.

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