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Pelion
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11-19-2009, 04:38 PM
Post subject: Interesting spot with AQ in 3bet pot.
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Villain is very aggro TAG and likes to fight for pots when his opponent figures to be on a weak range (e.g. steals/ low flops). His stats show 20/18 with a 10% 3bet, but almost all from the blinds. Hes on two of my tables. Button to my BB, and BB to my button. He seems to call 3bets a lot even OOP, but otherwise seems pretty solid/good for the stakes. Even though hes UTG, I think he could definitly call with hands as weak as AJs, KQs, TJs?. Can I check/call river expecting him to check his hands with showdown value behind and sometimes bet his weak A highs/ broadways as a bluff? Or should I just c/f the flop? I havnt hero called anything at a table with him yet fwiw.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
MP ($24.65)
Button ($22.95)
Hero (SB) ($25)
BB ($28.85)
UTG ($26.70)
Preflop: Hero is SB with Q , A
UTG bets $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3.50, 1 fold, UTG calls $2.50
Flop: ($7.25) 7, 3, 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $5, Hero calls $5
Turn: ($17.25) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks
River: ($17.25) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks/calls?
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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c/f. hes trying to get to showdown just as fast as you are and since he sounds like a somewhat thinking villain, he knows this is a terrible card to bluff.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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I think he has too many pairs here (utg range + calling a 3bet) to hero call here. It's also a pretty dumb spot to bluff when most of your range will probably be c/c here.
Also the way you've played the hand he can be value betting TT+ here. I think c/f > c/bomb > c/c.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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sniderstyle
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 12
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edit
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sniderstyle
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 12
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Nah, you cna't check/call that. I acutally prefer a check/fold on the flop. Too many hands have us crushed and because we're oop we can't take much heat.
C/f and move on on the flop
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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easy c/c on the river IMO. If he really had a hand, he woulda bet the turn. The river changes nothing.
If he bet smaller on the flop it woulda looked like a real hand trying to get value from A high, but after betting that big, it looks more like his range is polarized to me.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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OK Results time. He checked AQ behind.
Question 2: If we saw him play this same hand against someone else with the same stats as me before we sat down, would we be more or less likely to check/call the river now. I have my own ideas but Id like to hear what you guys say first.
Oh and fwiw it was a think for like 5 seconds and then check. Although that could have just been multitabling.
@Griffey: Theres only just about a potsize bet left so we cant really c/bomb.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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He clearly has no idea what he's doing. I'd still call if he bet the river regardless if I saw him play a hand this way or not because the times he does bet the river, he's going to have nothing. Not even A high.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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i know you said he likes to fight back when the board is low, but how so? Is he gonna raise/call 66 here? Also, you did rr his utg raise i feel like a normal player will give you some credit on the flop here. I really feel like cbetting is better and if he's really gonna play back with a raise you could always just shove over  .
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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I did seriously consider that, but with stack sizes as they are his raise is pretty likely to be a shove, and even if it isnt there isnt going to be an awful lot left behind so Im not sure I have any FE. I mean, even if I cbet like $4 and he makes a really small raise to $10, hes only going to have about $11 left so im not sure Im going to fold much with a shove. And hes certainly not calling the shove with a worse hand. So I think im probably getting the worst of it if I play it like that.
Im not sure if he raise/calls 66, but he could certainly do it with his midpairs and overcards.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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Pelion, a piece of general advice.... You are attempting to think far too in depth for the limits you are playing than necessary. It's really only going to set you back in your development. Making the same mistake set me back something retarded like 2 years.... Although Max's reasoning is solid and only elicits conclusions a strong player would come to, these types of situations/thought processes just don't have a place at 25nl.
My best advice... Do everything you can to keep your thoughts/conclusions as simple and straightforward as possible until you hit 400nl.
Obviosuly my previous advice/read on the situation was dead on, so it should be pretty clear I know what I'm talking about.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Marshal, I accept that its possible to overthink in the sense that you give villain too much credit or put him on a higher level than he is on, and then end up putting him on an incorrect range. But since youre "previous advice/read on the situation" was the same as mine, and as you say was dead on, how have I overthought it? If id thought less deeply I might have bet/folded on the flop to a frequently worse hand, or check/folded to a usually worse hand. I mean, my thought process wasnt even that deep. I put him on a range which was pretty weak (first level), I figured my hand was pretty face up (second level) and I played it accordingly. Im only over thinking it if he isnt trying to put me on a hand, and im pretty sure someone with his style is going to be.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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I posted that when I was really drunk, I get kinda cocky when I'm drunk.
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