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minSim
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11-18-2009, 08:22 AM
Post subject: I'm showing you goliath and you still shove
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Villain 24/17/1 over like 100 hands. Only history we have is that I 3bet villain a few hands before and I checked the flop behind and he lead turn and I folded. My perception of villain is that he's a decent tag for these stakes, doing the standard stuff although he's calling 3bets too loose.
I have been active at the table.
In my view this is a super polarised spot for villains range. I basically can't think of a hand a should play this way, but he is when I'm showing lots of strength on a board that kicks my range.
What's the worst hand you'd call with here?
Maybe we can take it a little further and talk about spots where villain is basically polarising his turn raising range. Do you just call with the upper part of your range although it doesn't really matter as all of you made hands are bluff catchers?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($39.05)
SB ($61.30)
Hero (BB) ($50)
UTG ($55.20)
MP ($50)
Preflop: Hero is BB with K , A
3 folds, SB bets $1.50, Hero raises to $4.50, SB calls $3
Flop: ($9) Q , K , A (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $6, SB calls $6
Turn: ($21) 7 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $15, SB raises to $50.80 (All-In)
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,476
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This is BvB vs a standard reg who probably overplays his hand in these situations. Sure he could have 77, QQ+ (although I doubt he calls a c-bet on THAT flop with 77) but its so much more likely for him to have A7, AQ, KQ, maybe TJ. I call this off and if he has us beat, gg him.
You need to be right 32% of the time.
Given the range of {QQ+, TJs, AQs+, A7s, AQo+, A7o, KQo, KQs} we have 64% (lol) equity. Even if you include TJo, its still 50/50. This is such a fist pump snap call its sick. Think of it this way, you still have 4 outs vs a large portion of the range that beats you. The only hands that make you shit the bed are AA/KK, and you have lolblockers to that. Ez cawl.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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{QQ+, TJs, AQs+, A7s, AQo+, A7o, KQo, KQs}
Do you really think all these get to the turn on this board the way the first 2 streets went?
Fwiw, I'd expect QQ(+KK/AA/AK), JT to c/r flop a ton. AQ usually as well.
A7o is not in his preflop range imo.
The others you mention PLUS lots of pair+gutshots and bare FD's I'd expect to c/c flop......BUT I'd expect them to c/c or c/f turn, not c/r, besides maybe A7s.
c/c flop c/r turn just seems like a really weird line on this board.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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snap crackle pop
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
snap crackle pop
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Not that I don't agree with calling, but based on what are you snapping?
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BigPapi
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Rotterdam, Holland
Posts: 437
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Based on our equity against his range. The way he played earlier streets (+ the ace and king in your hand + on the felt)discount at least a couple of combo's of his big pairs and there are just so many draws(or pair +draw) he can have here.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BigPapi
Based on our equity against his range. The way he played earlier streets (+ the ace and king in your hand + on the felt)discount at least a couple of combo's of his big pairs and there are just so many draws(or pair +draw) he can have here.
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Maybe I'm giving people just waaaay too much credit, but why do you expect someone to c/shove a combodraw here?
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,213
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This is an insanely easy call, JT is literally the only hand i'm worried about and he has plenty AQ, KQ, AJ, combos draws and yeah i do think he can show up with these here. I don't think there are any sets in his range wahtsoever because most regs will auto felt QQ b vs b because it's b vs b and people felt TT and AQ and stuff all the time.
Was this that zahrah guy or whatever (out of interest) description sounds a lot like him.
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WillburForce
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SW London
Posts: 514
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this is just one of those hands you have to call. Then he's shows J-10s and you say nice hand.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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i'm basing my snap on crackle and pop obv.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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BigPapi
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Rotterdam, Holland
Posts: 437
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I mean even when we give him a range of AA-QQ,AQ,KQ en JT (and take out all Ads,Kds,Qc) we're still 41-59 and I dont think that range can get any tighter (and is that tight in bvb)
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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What about KQ?
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BigPapi
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Rotterdam, Holland
Posts: 437
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what do you mean? if we have KQ or do you want to take it out of the range?
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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If we have KQ
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Was this that zahrah guy or whatever (out of interest) description sounds a lot like him.
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This was someone named BlueSWE. Zaharka I think you mean, I have only played some standard pots with him, one time he was calling overly light buts that's all I have as reads on him.
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,213
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Yah Zaharka calls way too many 3-bets until he runs into your value range a few times or you own him. He kinda stays out of my way lately.
The guy in your thread is a mega nit. Got him as 12/7 3bet% = 0 over 457 hands lol.
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,476
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by minSim
{QQ+, TJs, AQs+, A7s, AQo+, A7o, KQo, KQs}
Do you really think all these get to the turn on this board the way the first 2 streets went?
Fwiw, I'd expect QQ(+KK/AA/AK), JT to c/r flop a ton. AQ usually as well.
A7o is not in his preflop range imo.
The others you mention PLUS lots of pair+gutshots and bare FD's I'd expect to c/c flop......BUT I'd expect them to c/c or c/f turn, not c/r, besides maybe A7s.
c/c flop c/r turn just seems like a really weird line on this board.
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In short, yes. People do weird ass shit BvB, especially at 6m. He might 3bet his premiums in fear of "scaring you off," and then the flop comes down and its the most ldfo board to c-bet since it hits your raising range in the face and he just smooths for the same reasoning. Then he check/jams on you. Seems like a standard spot for each one of these hands. Like, I obv wouldn't play it the same way, but I would not discount any one of these hands, even A7o, since its BvB, and like I said, ppl do stupid shit.
I totally agree that he has AJ, pair + FD, pair + GSSD, etc in his range a TON, i just gave him a range that I feel is like ridiculously tight and we still snap this off with little to no thought given our pot odds and equity + 4 outs to the nizzles.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,147
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ginger SNAPS
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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For results; I called and villain showed KJ and rivered the T.
He accused me a bit of slowrolling in chat, while I was actually really thinking a bit on the turn.
I'm still interested in the worst hand you guys would call.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,599
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by minSim
I'm still interested in the worst hand you guys would call.
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This question isn't overly applicable. The worst hand I call here with, is the worst hand I choose to 3bet with for value pre and then double barrel this turn with for value.
I can't imagine betting any hand for value here on this turn brick that I won't be snap b/c.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Slow rolling is the most retarded insult in history from KJ there. Anything that calls him on this board has him beat so he should never feel like you gave him some false hope he was ahead.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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sniderstyle
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 12
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i snap call too. You see some crazy stuff in blind versus blind confrontations.
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