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Silly String
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01-23-2007, 05:57 PM
Post subject: I suck at making decisions on later streets
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Villain is 29/15 with low agg factor < 1
I play bad. Tips?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
UTG ($97.75)
Hero ($48.80)
CO ($41.70)
Button ($61.20)
SB ($79)
BB ($49.30)
Preflop: Hero is MP with 7 , 7 .
UTG calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2, 4 folds, UTG calls $1.50.
Flop: ($4.75) 6 , 3, 8 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $3.5, UTG calls $3.50.
Turn: ($11.75) 5 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $7.5, UTG calls $7.50.
River: ($26.75) 8 (2 players)
UTG bets $15, Hero folds.
Final Pot: $41.75
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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bigslikk
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 445
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Take my opinion as a grain of salt but:
1. I think you played fine, yes by the river it becomes obvious he was slowplaying (flopped set methinks)
2. Pair is no good, BB showed strength on the flop, too much for it to be a straight draw... I would bet he either flopped top two pair or rivered it. Turn call is reasonable; his bet seems somewhat weak. On the river, there's nothing that you're beating. Q7 ? AT? doubt it.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigslikk
Take my opinion as a grain of salt but:
1. I think you played fine, yes by the river it becomes obvious he was slowplaying (flopped set methinks)
2. Pair is no good, BB showed strength on the flop, too much for it to be a straight draw... I would bet he either flopped top two pair or rivered it. Turn call is reasonable; his bet seems somewhat weak. On the river, there's nothing that you're beating. Q7 ? AT? doubt it.
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Sorry, I had to move that hand to another thread:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-49902.htm
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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PF is fine, on the flop I am most likely checking behind. If we are betting this flop, I think I am going to probably check behind the turn. If we check the flop, I am going to bet the turn. As played, the river is definitely a fold.
Also, start include the number of hands your stats are over.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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You would check this flop Andy? I c-bet most flops. Shouldn't I c-bet here for consistency? I'm usually ahead here plus there are a lot of draws out there.
On the turn, I feel ahead here as the villain is likely to float with overs. I also picked up a OESD, so I want to keep the pressure on and build the pot. I obviously fold to a turn CR.
Now did that river really help him or did he just bluff me off my "overpair" with his missed flush draw?
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silly String
...did he just bluff me off my "overpair" with his missed flush draw?
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Don't get into the habit of thinking this at these stakes. "He must be bluffing" syndrome will kill your winrate. His AF says "not a chance". He likely made trips here.
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freechus9
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: IN UR BOX HAXXING UR FILEZ
Posts: 1,000
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Why is checking the flop better than betting it? C-bets will have a high probability of getting a fold, it wont give a free card to the flush/straight draw, and it will define our hand pretty well. When we are raised, we are beat. When we get a fold, hooray. When we get a call, well, lets try to showdown cheap. Checking behind just will let a flush draw hit, a straight draw hit, will let overcards hit. And the bluffs we induce by checking the flop will make any turn decision harder in my opinion.
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My sig is too much for you to handle.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Some reasons not to c-bet are that you're only folding hands you're ahead of, your hand has showdown value, and you may induce a turn bet from worse hands. I usually c-bet here b/c you probably have the best hand, and a lot of cards on the turn can come that will make you question that. But since villain is so passive, a turn bluff seems unlikely, so I actually like a flop check. As played, check behind turn.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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First of all, bet this flop 85% of the time
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silly String
On the turn, I feel ahead here as the villain is likely to float with overs. I also picked up a OESD, so I want to keep the pressure on and build the pot. I obviously fold to a turn CR.
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this is all wrong. Players are never likely to float out of position with nothing but overcards to a low flop. Picking up an OESD is a good reason to check behind, not bet again. You said you obviously fold to a turn CR. So you lose bigtime when you bet and fold to a raise. You have both a lot of outs to a strong hand and a hand with clear but not strong showdown value. In other words, by keeping the pot small and showing weakness you can profitably call a river bet, even a relatively big one, because youve often induced a bluff. Also, when he was planning to check-raise the turn and you disappointed him by checking behind, you can win a big bet from him when you hit a straight on the river against his set or two pair.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Checking the flop misses value, and gives a free card for absolutely no reason. The turn is probably a bet as well, especially after picking up a straight draw. River looks like an easy fold against a passive opponent.
I also think that marginal value bets like this are an important part of a balanced long-term strategy. That is to say, we aren't only betting here with "strong" hands.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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looks to me like he has a boat or nothing
if you've never seen him bluff missed hands (whiffed spades here I suppose) OOP then it's a fold.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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also
what do 29/15 ppl usually limp-call UTG with?
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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UG
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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you played this fine
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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I like checking the turn more and re-eval the river, but otherwise it looks good. I think the flop is ok to mix up but usually I'd just bet it.
btw, my guess is he had like 98s, wasn't sure it was good so tried check-calling down, then hit trips and tried to make a hard decision for you. OR he missed a flush draw, but that seems less likely because of his river bet size.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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how many hands do yuo have on him? it takes alot to get an idea of aggro factor. i usually call river.
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,605
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I hate it when three really good players all say to do different things on different streets for the same hand. I get so confused ...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Genitruc
also
what do 29/15 ppl usually limp-call UTG with?
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Low SC's, most SG's, Axs, Kxs, or possibly 22-55.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
how many hands do yuo have on him? it takes alot to get an idea of aggro factor. i usually call river.
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Not very many, probably not a good indicator. First time we've sat together. 40 hands or so.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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