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I river c/r too much... line checks

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griffey24

01-28-2008, 12:59 PM Post subject: I river c/r too much... line checks

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Hand 1:
-villain in this hand is very aggro, 25/18 player
-He spews quite a bit postflop, and barrels quite often
-we've had a few hands together today. One I c/r'd the flop and he 3-bet in position and I folded, and another all in PF my AQ>JJ
-I figured he must really have air in this hand to not even take a stab on flop or turn, how's the line?

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $5/$10
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $1462
UTG+1: $1132
CO: $1557.07
Button: $1050.75
SB: $1363.92
Hero: $4063

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with

3 folds, Button raises to $40, SB folds, Hero calls.

Flop:

($85, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn:

($85, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River:

($85, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $60, Hero raises to $230

Hand 2
-villain in this hand is somewhat nittish which makes this hand even worse I think. But in any case, he runs 17/13.
-He often double or triple barrels when he raises PF, so my plan for this hand was to c/c flop and c/r turn if he double barrelled
-decided to lead turn once he checked through, cause too many draws came out. I figure he'd call with a lot of mid pairs, and prob also hands like AQ/AK/AJ/KJ as well as other draws like 89,KQ,clubs
-I figure that this river card was either likely to have hit his top pair and he would value bet it, or would scare him off calling a second barrel anyhow. Thought I might also get value from missed draws by letting him bluff with a river c/r

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $5/$10 british pounds
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $1847
UTG+1: $1000
CO: $975
Button: $1244
Hero: $1526
BB: $1863.75

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with

UTG raises to $30, 3 folds, Hero calls, BB folds.

Flop:

($70, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

Turn:

($70, 2 players)
Hero bets $50, UTG calls.

River:

($170, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $100, Hero raises to $390, UTG raises all-in $1777, Hero grosss

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pocketfours

01-28-2008, 01:57 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Hand 1: I lead the turn here with pretty much my entire range. I balance this "missed flop c/r" line with very weak hands and draws, so I usually get action with my good hands.

Hand 2: Fold and be very happy you got away cheap.

Rondavu

01-28-2008, 01:57 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

I'll let the really smart high stakes guys chime in, but it looks like you're unbalancing the villains range, then you're not adjusting to take advantage of it.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

Andrew

01-28-2008, 04:00 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2007

Posts: 210

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

I'll let the really smart high stakes guys chime in, but it looks like you're unbalancing the villains range, then you're not adjusting to take advantage of it.

Would it be possible for you to explain this further?

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IowaSkinsFan

01-28-2008, 04:54 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Posts: 7,148

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Both rivers are much better bets than checks.

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griffey24

01-28-2008, 06:34 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Both rivers are much better bets than checks.

I agree that hand 2 is a much better bet than check, especially given the villain. I really butchered that hand... no to mention the fact that my fold button broke and I called his river push.

hand 1, however, I think a river check could be better. Villain is aggressive, and am fairly positive that he would bet/bluff this river. Especially given how passively I had played the hand up to the river.

In hand 1, given how villain has played the first two streets, what hands would call a river bet all of a sudden, that wouldn't have bet on earlier streets and that wouldn't bet the river themselves? The one spot I think a bet would be better is if villain somehow decides to raise my river lead for value with a hand like AK. Even then, its only better if I push over with my trips and he calls, and im not sure that either of those things would happen.

Alexos

01-28-2008, 06:42 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Montreal

Posts: 2,766

1) I agree with P4 on betting the turn. But as played I think c/r this river is a good play since his most likely holding is Ax imo, andddd hes kind of a spewy player that will payoff a c/r here.

2) Betting river is much better. No hand other than AJ will payoff a large river c/r here.

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pocketfours

01-28-2008, 07:30 PM Post subject: J

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by griffey24

In hand 1, given how villain has played the first two streets, what hands would call a river bet all of a sudden, that wouldn't have bet on earlier streets and that wouldn't bet the river themselves?

67, T9, 77, 88, 99, AcXc, QJ, KJ might all call a bet but wouldn't necessarily lead when checked to.

A lot of missed draws would often bluff this river, so I think it's very close between b/c and c/r.

Genitruc

01-29-2008, 01:51 AM

#9 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 4,463

Genitruc is an unknown quantity at this point

i d bet turn then CR riv in hand 1 since it ll look like you're playing scared of Ax with a hand like 99 a lot

hand 2 is disgusting

Can you even bet-call on riv? I guess a lot depends on opp's bluffing frequencies vs your perceived spewiness. gross.

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

griffey24

01-29-2008, 02:44 AM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genitruc

I think you can b/c on river, cause AJ probably/possibly raises the river there. But yah... don't ask me what I was thinking when I called his 3-bet shove... KQ obviously.

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I river c/r too much... line checks

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