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i play lag...and SPEW! (2 hands)

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benny999

06-05-2007, 05:54 AM Post subject: i play lag...and SPEW! (2 hands)

#1 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 1,567

this session i felt like playing a little tricker than normal. what do you think of my line/logic and these river plays?

#1

villain is 25/20, good regular, probably calls my cbet with a lot of PPs. not sure if he can make big all-in calls or not though.

i have a pretty tight/standard image, lots pots where i c-bet then shut down.
i 3bet vs this villain a decent amount, but not much at all oop.

so i figure i would do this with AK maybe AQ, why not T9?

Ultimate Bet
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2./$4.
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $88.10
UTG+1: $376
CO: $509.10
Button: $229.10
Hero: $443.50
BB: $228.80

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with 9

UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $14, 2 folds, Hero raises to $46, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: K

($96, 2 players)
Hero bets $70, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: A

($236, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

River: 5

($236, 2 players)
Hero is all-in $327.5 ($260 to call)

#2

villain is new to the table, but 20/15 over 50 hands. i think i have no history.
fwiw the timing was he played pretty fast on the flop and turn, then i thought a while before betting the river, and he insta c/r it.

before the c/r i had the impression he didn't have TPGK+, since most tags c/r that on the flop or lead the turn or river.
i also figured my hand looks about like what it is. but would he ever turn JJ type hands to a bluff for 1/2 pot?

Ultimate Bet
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2./$4.
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $568.55
CO: $447
Hero: $1128.60
SB: $520.40
BB: $383.10

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with A

UTG folds, CO raises to $14, Hero raises to $48, 2 folds, CO calls.

Flop: 3

($102, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $70, CO calls.

Turn: 8

($242, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks.

River: 4

($242, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $150??, CO raises all-in $329, Hero calls???.

Results:
Final pot: $900

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Ravageur

06-05-2007, 10:09 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Full House

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Montreal, Canada

Posts: 1,242

Afraid I''ll agree with your title that hand 1 is a spew. I don't think villain shows up here with anything but AK/AA/KK here all that often. People toss QQ/JJ in this spot in reraised spots more often than we think (I think).

Hand 2 is gross and I'm lost. I don't know what he could have here. Maybe an oddly played AK? This is a sweet bluff, but does he expect you to fold? yea im no help. I probably just pay it off since i'm so comitted but i have the cursor over the reload button.

Family Cruise IMO

Genitruc

06-05-2007, 10:21 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Posts: 4,463

Genitruc is an unknown quantity at this point

I like hand 1

Hand 2 I'd prefer checking the flop for starters

It's REALLY close to a call though. I really think I'd have a tough time folding. Your hand looks so weak after you check the turn. I think betting river has to be a planned snap-call if you get shoved on.

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

Robert

06-05-2007, 11:47 AM

#4 (permalink)

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Location: Kokkedal, Denmark

Posts: 1,109

In hand 1 I would much rather push turn than river, but mostly I would just give up after the flop.

Hand 2 is ugly. I would often check this flop, but I think betting some of the time is OK to balance it out. River I think I fold without any history, even though your hand looks somewhat weak after the turn check, I dont think a normal regular c/r bluffs the river much here without any history.

Ash256

06-05-2007, 02:39 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Location: UK

Posts: 1,760

In hand 1, how do we feel about the EV of betting ~150 rather than pushing?

Listen to my music

Pelion

06-05-2007, 03:47 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Posts: 3,206

Hand 1 is bad. He only calls with AA, KK, AK and if he has QQ or less (unlikely after calling the flop) then he'll fold to a smaller bet. You're push is for more than potsize so you need him to fold more than 50% of the time. I dont think its even close after he calls the flop.

Hand 2 I dont really have any idea how to play AT in a reraised pot. Id much rather check the flop than the turn. As played I dont know whether to call or not. Id guess he plays AK this way alot Vs you but you are also getting huge odds. You only have to be right something like 20% here so I think its pretty meh either way. Call and relode.

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

pgil

06-05-2007, 04:16 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Posts: 1,103

I like hand 1 if you would attempt to CR AK on that turn.

Hand 2 should really be a check behind on the river. Having said that, after missing a CR on the turn, who tries again on the river? He could only do that if he thinks you have total air (or has seen you making thin value bets), which opens up the range of hands that he can do this with, and allows you to call with more profitably.

"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce

zenbitz

06-05-2007, 04:34 PM

#8 (permalink)

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in hand 2 he has to have 44, 56 or AK/AQ. He checks the turn - not to c/r (becuse then he would lead river), but to see if you bet. When you check behind, he knows you have < AK. He could also bluff thinking you can't call with < AK, but not after you bet I think - he wants you to call.

Either that or he ginned the river with 44 or 56.

Hand 1.. too fancy. If he's too weak to call, he'll fold to a 1/2 pot. Fake c/r is too fancy anyway.

Genitruc

06-05-2007, 10:19 PM

#9 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 4,463

i like the river push in hand 1 since he can t call a whole lot regardless of how much we bet.

While this might seem to be an argument for betting small, if we get called here, we re raped in a big pot but our image is shot to hell. then we get to reload and profit.

also, if we don't get called, then we can start making huge overbets with lots of strong hands later on and be more likely to get paid off.

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

sauce123

06-05-2007, 10:47 PM

#10 (permalink)

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hand 1 is fine, i would usually just bet hard on the turn tho

hand 2 seems bad to me- bet/check flop 50/50 i think but ur mistake is betting river as we never get looked up by worse and we get C/R occasonally as a bluff but much more often for value and puuuuuukkkkeee

I got more flava than fruitstripe gum

Toadstool

06-06-2007, 02:35 AM

#11 (permalink)

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#1 - bet the turn so you have a pot sized bet left on river to push him off his hand - he will likely fold his KQ, I assume he folds KJ and 4 bets AK. maybe AQcc but he would prob C/R so I most likely KQ.
#2 - this spot is awful you wouldnt get into this situation if you didnt 3-bet Ax. As played fold river - he likely knows what you have and thinks you are calling.

benny999

06-06-2007, 04:20 AM

#12 (permalink)

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on hand 1, i see people float c-bets on the this sort of flop with mid pp...it would be pretty weak to fold with how often ppl 3bet+cbet.

otherwise i like the points that it's more +ev to just bet 1/2 pot on the turn or river (or folding pre or after the flop), but also that metagame for this is worth something.

result was kinda nuts- villain insta called...and showed 55. i thought his range was more like 99+/AK.
so a turn bet would've been +++ev vs this guy most likely, but i guess the river bet isn't too bad.

benny999

06-06-2007, 04:39 AM

#13 (permalink)

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on hand 2, since there's only 2 real bets post flop, and the board is pretty dry, i'm not sure if it matters if i check the flop or turn.

i agree the river was on the spewy side. maybe not though if i have a real crazy image or more specific reads.

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i play lag...and SPEW! (2 hands)

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