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griffey24
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09-06-2007, 06:01 PM
Post subject: I open on button with midpair, get 3-bet in blinds...
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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So this is more of a general question, for a situation I've been running into quite a bit lately at 500NL.
I get a pocket pair, lets say 88-TT. I open on the button for 4 times the BB to $20. I have been raising pretty aggressively and definitely have a wide range here.
Villain in blinds has also been aggressive with his 3-betting, and he 3-bets me to 3.5x my bet, to $70.
Several times I have decided that I am ahead of his range here (which I think is a light range, and is likely overcards), so I 4-bet him to $190 and he pushes over and I call and am shown AK.
If I assume that he will always felt AK in this spot, and has a light 3-bet range I can either:
a) 4-bet to $190+ with the intention of calling a push (and likely/hopefully be flipping)
b) fold to the 3-bet (way too tight I think)
c) Call the 3-bet, and push over any non A-K flop.
I am debating between a and c as to which is best. I feel like c) might be best, since I'm often getting away from flops with an A or K, and I'm putting him in a tough spot to call with just overs. In both scenario's a and c I would get stacked by an overpair anyhow.
sorry if I'm rambling, any thoughts would be appreciated.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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I almost never 4bet in position, and I definitely wouldn't with a hand like 88-TT that's behind his calling/pushing range and only folds one better hand maaaaybe (JJ). I like calling if I know he's a frequent 3bettor.
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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4betting makes villain's life much easier imo. let them spew some more by cbetting too often and not knowing what to do when you push.
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acesfullokings
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 198
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Surely calling is better, gives you more info on the flop and lets the villian hang himself more often, and also your life becomes much easier those times when you improve to a set as well.
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I started a new job so don't play much ATM, just FTP mini grind
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by benny999
4betting makes villain's life much easier imo. let them spew some more by cbetting too often and not knowing what to do when you push.
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True, but doesn't anyone think that sometimes 4-betting makes our life easier as well? What about the times that we have 88, and flat call the 3-bet, and villain has 22-77, or hands like KQ,KJ and the flop comes Axx or ATx and we are forced to fold the best hand?
I am beginning to agree that yes calling the 3-bet is probably overall the best, but there are certainly times where 4-bettign could be better PF. Though I guess the consensus is that calling the 3-bet is more +EV.
Or do people think that 4-betting PF may actually be -EV?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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I think calling the 3bet and raising flop is better. In our 500nl game, 4bets are usually seen as QQ+,AK for 95%+ of the playerbase. What I'm saying is your 4bet wont be called by worse , so your best hope is AK.
Might as well call the 3bet, since some regs do it with such a wide range (Upquaark, Anon, etc..) and raise over any flop IF U WANT TO GET IT IN PRE ANYWAYS.
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
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Originally Posted by benny999
4betting makes villain's life much easier imo. let them spew some more by cbetting too often and not knowing what to do when you push.
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True, but doesn't anyone think that sometimes 4-betting makes our life easier as well? What about the times that we have 88, and flat call the 3-bet, and villain has 22-77, or hands like KQ,KJ and the flop comes Axx or ATx and we are forced to fold the best hand? |
you don't have to always fold on A/K high flops...if opp 3bets those hands then sometimes make a smallish raise or float. this also means you should call with AQ+ pf too and not just 4bet everytime.
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