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d0zer
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05-10-2008, 05:44 PM
Post subject: I lose lotsa money playing HU
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
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Definitely not the first 3-bet from this villain, though his flop strength led me to believe he had something here...at least a pair. I've been my usual aggro self, raising almost every button, c-betting lots etc...
Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (2 handed) Ultimate-Bet Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)
BB ($78)
Hero ($167.30)
Preflop: Hero is Button with  ,  .
Hero raises to $4, BB raises to $12, Hero calls $8.
Flop: ($24)  ,  ,  (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $16, BB pushes Hero...?
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Call of course, what range could he possibly have here that you don't have odds to call?
Fold preflop and I hate raising 4x as your standard if you're raising most buttons and getting 3-bet a lot.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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^^^^ Couldn't agree more
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pankfish
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On Tony Romo's nuts
Posts: 385
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Just because you are playing HU doesn't mean you have to play crappy aces in 3 bet pots.
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<Staxalax> I want everyone to put my quote in their sigs
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
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Yeah I'm a FR donk who's trying to adapt to looser HU games.
Why only 3x? Enough to get the job done in deepstack HU?
So what is an 'acceptable' 3-bet calling range in this spot vs a villain who's 3-betting maybe 1/5th of your PFRs? AJ+?
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pankfish
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On Tony Romo's nuts
Posts: 385
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Keeps the pot small so your bluffs are cheaper and encourages BB to play out of position. I think the main reason for raising 4x + in fr and 6 max is for isolation and that's kind of automatic in HU.
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<Staxalax> I want everyone to put my quote in their sigs
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pankfish
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On Tony Romo's nuts
Posts: 385
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I'm not saying you have to have a tight range of calling a three bet either. I just chose hands that aren't as dominated as A x offsuit. If he is three betting a ton you could call with suited connectors, pairs, strong aces, and KQ.
Also if he is 3 betting you too much start mixing in small 4 bet bluffs and/or tighten up a little on the button.
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<Staxalax> I want everyone to put my quote in their sigs
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
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Thanks pankfish, mucho food for thought.
These HU games are fun 
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tarath
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 101
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calling this 3bet w A8o is total spew.
on flop i don't understand how you could ever think of anything but calling your getting like 2:1.
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
Call of course, what range could he possibly have here that you don't have odds to call?
Fold preflop and I hate raising 4x as your standard if you're raising most buttons and getting 3-bet a lot.
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I agree.
Also, I hate pf calls with this kind of hand. Raise or fold imo
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LOL OPERATIONS
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
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*waits for another person to tell me that my preflop call was bad*
Ok, ok, I'm a HU donk, I get it.
What factors to people use to determine whether or not to 4-bet / call / fold?
If someone's 3-betting a little light, is it better just to 4-bet more when you're OOP, and call more IP? Would you ever call 3-bets with hands like AJ (and why?), or is it also too easily dominated?
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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This is something I'm looking for advice on as well.
I think for folding/raising it's simply a matter of determining his pf raise ranges and whether you're behind or ahead.
For calling, I'm starting to realize I may be calling with too many hands that I should insert into the above paragraph, fold or raise. I think hands that you should call with are drawing hands like suited connectors and possibly small pairs.
I want to hear advice from people who aren't dumb at poker like me.
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LOL OPERATIONS
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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dozer, villain has to be 3betting like 15%+ to make this profitable with 100 bb stakcs
u hit gin now get it in
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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sweetlemon69
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 296
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
dozer, villain has to be 3betting like 15%+ to make this profitable with 100 bb stakcs
u hit gin now get it in
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Sauce care to elaborate why V needs to be 3betting around 15% of the time to make this +ev?
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sweetlemon69
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
dozer, villain has to be 3betting like 15%+ to make this profitable with 100 bb stakcs
u hit gin now get it in
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Sauce care to elaborate why V needs to be 3betting around 15% of the time to make this +ev? |
I'll take a stab:
If v is 3-betting that loose, then A8 actually plays well against that wide of a range. But since most villain's 3-betting range isn't that wide, A8 doesn't play profitably against the typically tighter range given how badly it's often dominated.
I learned a lot from this thread, and from playing a bunch more.
Despite people having wider ranges, they're not usually AS wide as I originally assumed...
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