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I leak in 3bet pots, some hands for review

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minSim

02-01-2009, 09:09 PM Post subject: I leak in 3bet pots, some hands for review

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Deventer

Posts: 1,512

According to my last 2 months results, I’m leaking money in 3bet pots. Here are some of my less shiny plays in them, any general or specific comments are welcome;
(I’m not giving too much info, it would make the thread very long)

Hand 1 – Preflop caller is 18/14 ATS 27, FT3b 50 over 3.1k hands.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer Game#24495859117

SB ($79.65)
Hero ($55.40)
UTG ($51.05)
UTG+1 ($15.45)
CO ($57.65)
BTN ($68.95)

Dealt to Hero T

fold, fold, CO raises to $2, call, call, Hero raises to $10, call, fold, fold,

FLOP ($24) 8

check, CO bets $12, Hero folds,

Hand 2 – Villain played 28/18, ATS 35, ft3b 17 over 247 hands.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer Game#24462000340

SB ($114)
Hero ($53.05)
UTG ($42.65)
CO ($50)
BTN ($50)

Dealt to Hero T

fold, CO raises to $2, fold, fold, Hero raises to $7, call,

FLOP ($14.25) 6

check, CO bets $8.50, Hero calls $8.50,

TURN ($31.25) 6

check, CO bets $14.50, Hero folds,

Hand 3 – Villain played 14/7 over 101 hands, ATS 12.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer Game#24459748624

SB ($38.80)
Hero ($50)
UTG ($36.35)
CO ($73.05)
BTN ($46.95)

Dealt to Hero K

fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $1.50, Hero raises to $4.50, call,

FLOP ($9) 8

check, check,

TURN ($9) 8

SB bets $4, Hero calls $4,

RIVER ($17) 8

SB bets $17, Hero folds,

Hand 4 – Villain playing 17/14 over 407 hands, ATS 31, ft3b 43, ftcb 50.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer Game#24459578657

SB ($50.25)
Hero ($52.90)
UTG ($50)
UTG+1 ($50.50)
CO ($54.25)
BTN ($50.25)

Dealt to Hero A

UTG raises to $2, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $7, call,

FLOP ($14.25) 3

check, UTG bets $9.50, Hero folds,

Hand 5 – Villain playing 18/17 over 222 hands, ft3b 0 (of 3).

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer Game#24431201965

Hero ($62.80)
BB ($39.85)
UTG ($8.75)
UTG+1 ($51.25)
CO ($50.75)
BTN ($100)

Dealt to Hero Q

fold, UTG+1 raises to $2, fold, call, Hero raises to $9, fold, fold, call,

FLOP ($20.50) J

Hero bets $12, BTN calls $12,

TURN ($44.50) J

check, BTN bets $22, Hero folds,

Hand 6 – Villain playing 19/14 over 64 hands.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer Game#24431201965

Hero ($62.80)
BB ($39.85)
UTG ($8.75)
UTG+1 ($51.25)
CO ($50.75)
BTN ($100)

Dealt to Hero Q

fold, UTG+1 raises to $2, fold, call, Hero raises to $9, fold, fold, call,

FLOP ($20.50) J

Hero bets $12, BTN calls $12,

TURN ($44.50) J

check, BTN bets $22, Hero folds,

Hand 7 – Villain being maniacal in 21 hands.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer Game#24220910583

SB ($7.45)
Hero ($54.40)
UTG ($97.85)
CO ($77.35)
BTN ($50)

Dealt to Hero Q

fold, CO raises to $2, fold, fold, Hero raises to $7, call,

FLOP ($14.25) J

Hero bets $8, CO calls $8,

TURN ($30.25) J

check, CO bets $12, Hero folds,

Hand 8: First villain being 14/9 over 127 hands. Second one 36/0 over 97 hands. No 3bet stats.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer Game#23998717991

SB ($82.10)
Hero ($54.30)
UTG ($30)
UTG+1 ($86.60)
CO ($53.95)
BTN ($40.40)

Dealt to Hero K

UTG raises to $2, fold, call, fold, fold, Hero raises to $8, call, call,

FLOP ($24.25) 3

check, check, CO bets $8.50, Hero folds, UTG folds, , CO shows A

,

Hand 9: Villain being 21/16 over 56 hands, ats 38.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer Game#23925786732

SB ($50)
Hero ($50.50)
UTG ($54)
CO ($54.70)
BTN ($55.45)

Dealt to Hero Q

fold, fold, BTN raises to $1.50, fold, Hero raises to $5.50, call,

FLOP ($11.25) T

check, BTN bets $7, Hero folds,

Hand 10 – Villain unknown.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer Game#23603515555

SB ($89.75)
Hero ($50)
UTG ($13.25)
UTG+1 ($95)
CO ($165)
BTN ($56.85)

Dealt to Hero A

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $1.50, fold, Hero raises to $5.50, call,

FLOP ($11.25) J

check, check,

TURN ($11.25) J

check, check,

RIVER ($11.25) J

check, BTN bets $5.50, Hero folds,

Hand 11 – PFR being 16/16 over 67 hands, ats 47.
3bet caller being 36/24 over 275 hands, ftcb 29.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer Game#23600626898

SB ($51.80)
BB ($59.75)
UTG ($62.10)
CO ($84.65)
Hero ($51.05)

Dealt to Hero 6

fold, CO raises to $2, Hero raises to $6, fold, call, fold,

FLOP ($14.25) 3

check, Hero bets $8, BB calls $8,

TURN ($30.25) 3

check, check,

RIVER ($30.25) 3

check, check,

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griffey24

02-02-2009, 03:27 AM

#2 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Lots of hands posted and I didn't look at all of them. But I'd say the general sense I get from the hands is that you're 3betting/squeezing pre and then not betting enough on flops.

ATo - If I felt this hand was reasonable to 3-bet pre, then I'd be betting the Q high flop. In this case, against such a nitty opener, I don't think popping him is reasonable, so c/f is ok.

TT - You're going to have a hard time c/c in 3bet pots on K high boards, and hoping to get to showdown. I'd much much rather bet this K high flop than c/c here.

AQo on T high board - it's a draw heavy board, so I can see why you're hesitant to bet here. At the same time, we can't just be c/f any flops we miss. This one is close, just cause of how often we might get shipped.

KQ on JTx board - Turn is close and I can go either way between betting or c/f. If he's been peeling lots of flops I'd fire again. But again, I'd just fold this hand pre a good amount, instead of squeezing a nittyish EP opener.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

nutsinho

02-02-2009, 04:15 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt

Posts: 3,280

you posted 11 hands in one post

My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.

minSim

02-02-2009, 07:02 AM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Deventer

Posts: 1,512

Quote:

Originally Posted by griffey24

Lots of hands posted and I didn't look at all of them. But I'd say the general sense I get from the hands is that you're 3betting/squeezing pre and then not betting enough on flops.

This is certainly true.
My 3bet stat is 4,5% fwiw and my sqeeuzing like 5%. Most of my opponents are calling 3bets light, like 50%-ish.
In most of the hands I posted where I c/f flop, I feel like a cbet isn't profitable (duh). Am I right you don't agree with this?..or like do you think it's close enough and you'd rather err on the side of aggression?

I'm still with something Fees wrote in his ebook; that if you're not intending to double barrel, you should think of c/f-ing flop. Moreso compared to single raised pots.
Have I taken that too far?

Quote:

Originally Posted by griffey24

ATo - If I felt this hand was reasonable to 3-bet pre, then I'd be betting the Q high flop. In this case, against such a nitty opener, I don't think popping him is reasonable, so c/f is ok.

You'd rather call pre? or fold?

Quote:

Originally Posted by griffey24

KQ on JTx board - Turn is close and I can go either way between betting or c/f. If he's been peeling lots of flops I'd fire again. But again, I'd just fold this hand pre a good amount, instead of squeezing a nittyish EP opener

It's the preflop caller that's the nitty one, the PFR'er folded. (sorry HEM hh's aren't very clear)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutsinho

you posted 11 hands in one post

Yeah sorry, I couldn't think of a better way to show a general thinking/acting. I'm not primarily looking for hand specific advice though, some general comments like griffey did in the first part of his response are very welcomed as well.

griffey24

02-02-2009, 12:31 PM

#5 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

ATo hand - insta fold pre. Especially OOP.

KQo hand - yah I realized that the PFR was the nit and not the caller. But it's still the PFR we're worried about when we're squeezing mostly, so that still makes the squeeze questionable. Also, if the EP PFR is nitty, that means people's calling ranges behind could also be much stronger (ie: people flatting hands like JJ/AQ etc against the nit)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

bjsaust

02-03-2009, 09:06 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Ballarat, Australia

Posts: 5,842

You seriously need to start thinking about your 3-bet range OOP and how it fares v's a 3-bet calling/4bet range from villains. It really sucks.

Just playing to improve.

bjsaust

02-03-2009, 09:50 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Ballarat, Australia

Posts: 5,842

You say you leak in 3-bet pots, well you posted 11 hands and...10 out of 11 hands were 3-bet from the blinds!

Might be something in that...

Just playing to improve.

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I leak in 3bet pots, some hands for review

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