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I hate my turn play

  
 
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Miffed22001
Old 10-06-2007, 05:00 AM     Post subject: I hate my turn play #1 (permalink)  
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 Opp is 30/9/0.9 over 300hands (didnt have that up at the time)
All i know is im in this game to play hands with him hence allowing him to defend his blinds against me. CO was short and bad so i liked flops against him and then getting value that way.
Preflop is debatable, turn is more important
Turn play?

Absolute Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($185.44)
UTG ($414.85)
MP ($413.55)
CO ($72.25)
Hero ($283.85)
SB ($410.85)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, T.
2 folds, CO calls $2, Hero calls $2, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($8) 4, 6, T (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets $8, CO folds, Hero calls $8, SB folds.

Turn: ($24) A (2 players)
BB bets $20, Hero raises to $73 ???????
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Deanglow
Old 10-06-2007, 05:32 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 Raise preflop and flop. On the turn his bet looks like he has a worse 2 pair. What is wrong with raising here?
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 10-06-2007, 06:32 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 you need to raise A-10 on the button when no one has raised in front of you.

once you do that you can bet/fold the flop, but that will hardly ever happen on this kind of flop. Usually i check the turn since it probably won't be a total blank, and then call a river bet if the board isn't too scary/bet if checked to.

As played there is no reason not to raise the turn. weaker 10-x hands aren't going to be putting more money in once the Ace is on the board without improving. You don't want 5-7 or Xd-Xd to get to the river without paying, and you aren't making a mistake by calling a shove and sometimes being shown 4-4/6-6.
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daven
Old 10-06-2007, 06:54 AM     Post subject: Re: I hate my turn play #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Preflop is debatable, turn is more important
Turn play?
?
pre-flop - y0u had your reasons.
Flop play is debatable. Why not re-raise??
Turn looks fine to me.
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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dsaxton
Old 10-06-2007, 04:39 PM #5 (permalink)  
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I don't see why you wouldn't raise the turn.

The cutoff's being a short stack is even more reason to raise preflop.
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 10-06-2007, 06:47 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 preflop isn't debateable, it's a raise with a little fistpump.
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bigspenda73
Old 10-06-2007, 06:56 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 Are you afraid to raise the turn b/c you have such a strong hand and you know that he's going to have to fold pretty much all of him range to a raise?

I'm not sure how much value there is in raising unless we can put him on some type of 2pr hand
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dsaxton
Old 10-07-2007, 01:43 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
I'm not sure how much value there is in raising unless we can put him on some type of 2pr hand
How much more value is there in calling against the hands that fold to a raise?
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Miffed22001
Old 10-07-2007, 11:00 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 Just out of interest, full HH.

Absolute Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($185.44)
UTG ($414.85)
MP ($413.55)
CO ($72.25)
Hero ($283.85)
SB ($410.85)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, T.
2 folds, CO calls $2, Hero calls $2, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($8) 4, 6, T (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets $8, CO folds, Hero calls $8, SB folds.

Turn: ($24) A (2 players)
BB bets $20, Hero raises to $60, BB calls $40.

River: ($144) 5 (2 players)
BB bets 115.44 , Hero calls $115.44.

Final Pot: $259.44
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pocketfours
Old 10-07-2007, 05:18 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001


Turn: ($24) A (2 players)
BB bets $20, Hero raises to $73 ???????

Turn: ($24) A (2 players)
BB bets $20, Hero raises to $60, BB calls $40.
Hmm, which version of your turn play are we discussing?

I'm not very happy with any street, but IF you limp preflop, you SHOULD play more conservatively postflop. Call turn and fold to any decent sized river bet.

Preflop:
I'm sure limping here with ATs on the button is +EV. Raising might still be better, but any winning play is good.
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Miffed22001
Old 10-07-2007, 06:00 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001


Turn: ($24) A (2 players)
BB bets $20, Hero raises to $73 ???????

Turn: ($24) A (2 players)
BB bets $20, Hero raises to $60, BB calls $40.
Hmm, which version of your turn play are we discussing?

I'm not very happy with any street, but IF you limp preflop, you SHOULD play more conservatively postflop. Call turn and fold to any decent sized river bet.

Preflop:
I'm sure limping here with ATs on the button is +EV. Raising might still be better, but any winning play is good.
i thought the diff between limping/raising was close but playing against bad post flop players who will give up if i get aggressive with even one pair makes limping and seeing cheap flops better.
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dsaxton
Old 10-07-2007, 06:33 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
Preflop:
I'm sure limping here with ATs on the button is +EV. Raising might still be better, but any winning play is good.
This thinking is wrong. The right decision is the one that maximizes expectation, not any old play that happens to have positive expectation. Consider if I were to offer to give you either $100 or $1,000 for free. Your logic implies that you would be making a correct decision in accepting the $100 offer.

Obviously limping A-T suited here has positive expectation, but raising is still better.
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benny999
Old 10-07-2007, 09:38 PM #13 (permalink)  
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miffed- is he so passive he wouldn't lead out on a draw?

i think u played ok (except for limping -- "top pair kills shortys dead")...looked like he had a worse 2 pair...but then he leads the river that completes some draws wtf?
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sauce123
Old 10-07-2007, 09:57 PM #14 (permalink)  
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