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Irisheyes
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06-16-2006, 11:01 AM
Post subject: I hate coming up with titles for hands
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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OK given that we know he has a flush draw when he checks the turn, how should I play the river? Villian is a very good TAGG.
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
saw flop|saw showdown
Hero ($382.30)
BB ($865.80)
UTG ($329.70)
MP ($420.10)
Button ($339.35)
Preflop: Hero is SB with Q , Q . Hero posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls $4, MP calls $4, 1 fold, Hero (poster) raises to $14, BB calls $12, UTG calls $12, MP calls $12.
Flop: ($64) 3 , J, 2 (4 players)
Hero bets $50, BB folds, UTG raises to $100, MP folds, Hero calls $50.
Turn: ($264) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.
River: ($264) A (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $150, Hero ??
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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You pushed and he called? The final pot says so. I'd call.
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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Robert
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kokkedal, Denmark
Posts: 1,109
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He limped UTG which probably means SC, AXs or smaller PP. If you know he has a flushdraw when he checks the turn behind, you have to checkcall a reasonable bet on the river. Sure you are often behind Axs here, but you are getting great odds here on your call and you are ahead a SC often enough. Also, if UTG is decent he often wont bet a weak ace on the river but just check behind, making it less likely that he has AXs when he bets the river.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
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Raise a bit more preflop. I like 5BB after 2 limpers. River is a c/c. Raising is very -EV.
Quote:
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Also, if UTG is decent he often wont bet a weak ace on the river but just check behind, making it less likely that he has AXs when he bets the river.
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QFT.
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Cocco_Bill
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,254
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Looks like AJ or a busted flush draw. Its close between folding/calling, raising is just bad.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill
Looks like AJ or a busted flush draw. Its close between folding/calling, raising is just bad.
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3:1.. Easy call?
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Robert
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kokkedal, Denmark
Posts: 1,109
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill
Looks like AJ or a busted flush draw. Its close between folding/calling, raising is just bad.
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3:1.. Easy call? |
I would hit it! This shows why bluffin with weak bets on the river in spots like these against decent players is bad.
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Cocco_Bill
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,254
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill
Looks like AJ or a busted flush draw. Its close between folding/calling, raising is just bad.
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3:1.. Easy call? |
No way its an easy call, not in the games I play anyhow.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robert
against decent players
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 :P
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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id have bet the turn then the river is pretty much a non-decision if we get there. You have to be good enuf often enuf to call here
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Robert
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kokkedal, Denmark
Posts: 1,109
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robert
against decent players
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:P |
? didnt you say that opp was a good TAG? 
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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If he has a mediocre hand he checks behind. He either has you buried or he is bluffing. I play 50NL and this is a busted draw often enough to make a call +EV.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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alias2211
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: U, S and A!!!
Posts: 469
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he minraised you on the flop.
was a 3bet ever an option you considered? i hope it crossed your mind. your hand isn't likely to improve much more than it stands on the flop, turn and river are usually only going to be 2 cards you don't want to come.
it looks like he minraised you w/ a draw or a J he didn't really like that much to 'see where he stands', maybe even a non-set lower PP.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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A flop 3-bet is horrible because no hand that I can beat will ever call it.
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
A flop 3-bet is horrible because no hand that I can beat will ever call it.
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Yeah but the minraise is usually a set or a FD in my exp. I would probably three bet this or just drop the hand.
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LOL OPERATIONS
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
A flop 3-bet is horrible because no hand that I can beat will ever call it.
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Yeah but the minraise is usually a set or a FD in my exp. I would probably three bet this or just drop the hand. |
It usually signifies the same thing for me too. It's just that I've been having a problem with floaters and people playing back at me aggressivly with weak hands. I can't just drop my marginals at the first sign of resistance anymore.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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how about calling and leading a blank turn?
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Ya good idea. Allowing draws to check behind is dangerous.
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SmackinYaUp
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: B N L
Posts: 1,725
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Ya good idea. Allowing draws to check behind is dangerous.
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Its dangerous, but you can tell when it happens. Sometimes I'd rather give a free card than play a pair OOP with an even bigger pot against a good TAG. Bet the turn again against fish and checkraise the tags on turn and if you miss that then check/call a safe river. Not always of course, but sometimes this is a good line. Its not that readable if you think about it because we check the turn with missed overs all the time.
That ace really sucks though and I would have folded.
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He who drinks beer sleeps well.
He who sleeps well cannot sin.
He who does not sin goes to Heaven.
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natdang
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 380
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If you think he's on a draw, why don't you just take the mother down on the flop? I 3-bet in case he IS playing back with crap... if not I slow down on later streets.
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johnnyBuz
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Philly, Pa
Posts: 462
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what did you think he had on the flop/turn that made you check the turn?
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Liter of cola.
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,603
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I love the logic that you let him draw for free because he'll fold if you don't. I would re read theory of poker.
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underminedsk
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Reraising you from the button
Posts: 250
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my standard line in this situation is:
1. Raise more preflop. With 1 limper already in, a $10 raise probably isnt going to properly isolate.
2. I'm oop with a good but vurnerable hand on the flop. For this reason I lead in for about 1/2 pot, and try to control pot size a little.
2. 90% of the time I come right back over the top of the raiser on the flop. I try to give the impression that I am ready to play for stacks with my hand, while not acutally wanting to. If you have properly controlled the pot size up to this point, your reraise should be to about $100-$120. If he calls my 3 bet I probably am not calling a turn bet of any sort, and folding to anything but a smallish river bet if he checks the turn behind me.
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online br: $14,000, @400NL full ring, 100NL 6 max
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by natdang
If you think he's on a draw, why don't you just take the mother down on the flop? I 3-bet in case he IS playing back with crap... if not I slow down on later streets.
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I didn't realise he was drawing until he checked behind. Minraises often mean sets/2-pr right? He has a note now.
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Cocco_Bill
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,254
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by drmcboy
I love the logic that you let him draw for free because he'll fold if you don't. I would re read theory of poker.
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So what do you think his flop min-raise range is? How often is it a draw of some kind?
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,603
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I don't know what the guy has. I'm just saying this isn't way ahead/way behind, there are lots of hands that you need to charge to stay in, and hands that will pay you off here but won't if the D or an A pops.
If you want to trust the good TAG read, the only hand he can have is the set. Good TAGs aren't limping SCs or AJ/KJ. Since you say you know he has an FD on the turn, I'm not wild about the read.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Ya the read could be suspect alright I'll give you that. It was what I thought at the time though. Bear in mind that I'm new to 400NL, Party and 6max all at the same time. Plus I have no PA hud yet.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill
Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill
Looks like AJ or a busted flush draw. Its close between folding/calling, raising is just bad.
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3:1.. Easy call? |
No way its an easy call, not in the games I play anyhow. |
You're right; the oesd also hit.. A solid Tag will check Axs often though.
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