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IowaSkinsFan
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11-12-2006, 03:40 AM
Post subject: I folded a set... Am I an idiot?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I don't have the HH sory but I will explain.
I am in BU with 44. 30/20, who seems pretty solid yet aggro open raises in CO, I threebet light. We both have 200BB stacks. Everyone folds and he calls. His call is a wide range. flop comes 467 rainbow. he checks to me where I bet 15 and he pushes all in. He probably thinks i have been threebetting him light.
He has seemed smart so my best read would be a set 77 or 66. 85, and 53 aren't out of the question especially with our stacks. which means of course 76 and 74 wouldn't be either. I am really doubting a semibluff... but should i be doubting it?
Your move? I folded....
This is a hand i had with him, which may help.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...234c6959ec955c
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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lol
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
lol
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So im going to take this as I am an idiot? BTW this is the nittiest fold i have ever made, but idk if it was bad.
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AHiltz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Coldbrook, NS
Posts: 1,589
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There is no way in hell that he does this without a big hand. My bet is he has set or straight and assumes you are on AA/KK and will pay off his push. I fold this without a read. You are a 65% to 35% dog against a straight and in a world of hurt against a better set.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AHiltz
There is no way in hell that he does this without a big hand. My bet is he has set or straight and assumes you are on AA/KK and will pay off his push. I fold this without a read. You are a 65% to 35% dog against a straight and in a world of hurt against a better set.
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yeah pretty much my reasoning. but Rentons lol makes me think im giving him too much credit.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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BAD IMAGE
+
LAGG VILLAIN
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VILLAIN RAISING IN LATE POSITION
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HERO THREEBETTING FROM LATE POSITION.
+
FLOPPED SET
+
RERAISED POT
=
GG 200bb no matter how scary villains line is.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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gabe?
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Fold preflop.
Oh, and click my signature.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Fold preflop.
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This is a joke right?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
gabe?
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gabe is even more of an advocate of never folding sets than i am
I didn't mean to come across as a cock. Theres really no way you can fold this. Even against a tight passive player this isn't a feasible fold. Lets think about this for a moment:
He raises 3.5bb, you make it 11bb to go and he calls. You go to a flop with 189bb behind and 22bb in the pot. He checks, you bet 15bb and he shoves.
Well isn't this identical the following hypothetical situation?:
You raise from CO to 3.5bb, he calls from blinds. You go heads up to the flop with a pot of 8bb and 69bb behind. He checks you bet 6 and he shoves. Are you really folding the third nuts for only just over half a buyin?
If you can't see the comparison, i'll explain. The hypothetical hand I described is the exact same stack/pot ratio on the flop as in the hand you posted, only its not a reraised pot.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Yeah I was joking.
And I think it's 5th nuts, renton.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I think the 2nd situation is completely different than the first.
1. The range for opps is much less.
2. My range in opps eyes is much more.
Yes you're right the second hand is a very obvious call, but it eliminates my arguement. My arguement is that opps probably puts me on an overpair, which he couldn't in the other situation. the second is that opps range is small and therefore it's much easier to fold than in that second situation.
Please further explain. Your first arguement still holds water though.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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though renton's analogy is pretty bad he's right that this isn't a fold. He has AA so much more than a set with this line it isn't even funny. You just threw away a lot of money, bro.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
And I think it's 5th nuts, renton.
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we're only really worried about better sets
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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all im saying is that by principle you should never be folding near nut hands when your stack/pot ratio on the flop is less than like 10:1
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UG
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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I call his push with a quickness that has never been seen before.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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bad
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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you folded a flopped set?????????????????????????????
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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i actually think putting 85 or 53 in his range is a stretch. You'd have to put very little weight on those hands.
Then again... i really don't know what to put him on. A flopped set is losing so much value. and on a rainbow board why the hell would someone push a straight?
It makes so little sense... But seriously, i could go either way.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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In my limited experience at these stakes (nl100 right?) this is AA or KK (getting "tricky") or a set. Usually a set will lead here if villain puts u on overpair. U have one of them so not many left for villain to have...
Quick, easy (like 70-30 ish) call for me.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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I'm an advocate of never folding sets either.
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Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
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NLHE lahooozaher
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 916
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Against Hakeem9? It's easyyyyyyyyyyyyy. Please don't fold against him.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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This is KK/AA way too often to fold this. And don't forget 54/65/55.
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Dislexsik
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On the grind
Posts: 832
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Lol u got played.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
And don't forget 65.
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he showed...
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Haha Hakeem9. I smoked him for a pile on a 4568x board yesterday. I had 79 and donk pushed $120 into a $35ish pot. He called with A7. Hahahaha.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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This is after you saw him open overbet push with ace high!?!
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Lukie
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11-13-2006, 09:25 PM
Post subject: Re: I folded a set... Am I an idiot?
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#29 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I don't have the HH sory but I will explain.
I am in BU with 44. 30/20, who seems pretty solid yet aggro open raises in CO, I threebet light. We both have 200BB stacks. Everyone folds and he calls. His call is a wide range. flop comes 467 rainbow. he checks to me where I bet 15 and he pushes all in. He probably thinks i have been threebetting him light.
He has seemed smart so my best read would be a set 77 or 66. 85, and 53 aren't out of the question especially with our stacks. which means of course 76 and 74 wouldn't be either. I am really doubting a semibluff... but should i be doubting it?
Your move? I folded....
This is a hand i had with him, which may help.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...234c6959ec955c |
even if you folded and he showed 77, I still hate it. 
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Yesterday I folded JJ on a AJx board. I reraised villain preflop. He donked flop AI, and in my excitement, I hit the wrong fucking button.
I felt so, so, so stupid.
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