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meeloche
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03-10-2009, 07:57 PM
Post subject: I don't get it 400nl
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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Villain is a 24/17/5 type. I haven't played with him very much all I know about him is he felted JJ bvb vs me a couple of sessions ago with no history.
I don't really know here his value range is pretty tiny but I don't know how much he's bluffing here?
No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
saw flop
Hero (UTG) ($448)
MP ($255.65)
Button ($164)
SB ($417)
BB ($400)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with A , 5
Hero bets $16, 3 folds, BB calls $12
Flop: ($34) A , A , 7 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $24, BB calls $24
Turn: ($82) 10 (2 players)
BB bets $60, Hero calls $60
River: ($202) 8 (2 players)
BB bets $104, Hero?
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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gotta call it, if he has a big hand he will slowplay turn most often
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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ATOTHEC101
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Full House
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,248
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Da GOAT
gotta call it, if he has a big hand he will slowplay turn most often
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disagree, villain is semi competent and will play better ax's and even boats the same here as he realises you'll be checking behind most of your range on the turn, even your rag aces, plus his river bet looks like it's for pure value, fold river imo.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Da GOAT
gotta call it, if he has a big hand he will slowplay turn most often
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disagree, villain is semi competent and will play better ax's and even boats the same here as he realises you'll be checking behind most of your range on the turn, even your rag aces, plus his river bet looks like it's for pure value. |
If anyone is checking back their rag aces here.. I will smack them!
I'm kind of meh on this river. I think its close and isn't really a big mistake either way.
His sizing is weird small... which looks like value town but also I'd expect a strong hand to want to fill it up and stack us if we have trips.
Sooo... I probably station call it.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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nobody said he is competent
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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ATOTHEC101
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Full House
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,248
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Da GOAT
nobody said he is competent
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meh 24/17/5 types are semi competent a large percentage of the time.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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doesnt seem like he has a boat.......shove?
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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i think i like shoving better than calling, i also like folding better than calling
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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yourfather
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: In your fridge
Posts: 603
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Da GOAT
gotta call it, if he has a big hand he will slowplay turn most often
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disagree, villain is semi competent and will play better ax's and even boats the same here as he realises you'll be checking behind most of your range on the turn, even your rag aces, plus his river bet looks like it's for pure value. |
If anyone is checking back their rag aces here.. I will smack them! |
A little tough love lol. Umm for those who say shoving good, I don't get it. Are we expecting to fold out better AX hands? Are we expecting worse hands to call?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I guess you guys have more of a grasp of what he has than i do? I'd probably call and just be totally confused in the entire hand.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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I would just call. Only thing I can see him having that makes sense is TT, but like Goat says he'll slowplay that a lot. I think he just has a bluff a lot.
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Just playing to improve.
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bspahn
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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not sure if shoving is that great here, is he calling a shove with hands like Tx / KK / QQ etc?
wa/wb basically
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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How I read his line was I'm not expected to double this card very often with air so if he wants to get value he has to lead this turn. Again I'm not really sure cause its not a line I see others take very often. With his river bet size I dunno how he expects it to fold out much of my turn range either.
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ATOTHEC101
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Full House
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,248
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bspahn
not sure if shoving is that great here, is he calling a shove with hands like Tx / KK / QQ etc?
wa/wb basically
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The shove would be a bluff trying to get him off ax better kick, as I would have thought he bets bigger on the river with a boat. His hand looks like aq,aj to me.
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bspahn
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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so we're repping A8/AT/TT/88 and when we shove he's getting 3:1 with his AJ/AQ type hand, i'm just not sure this is going to be a great situation for us... but it's an interesting line I suppose
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Outlaw
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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Board: As Ac 7h Ts 8d
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.411% 27.40% 13.01% 20 9.50 { Ad5d }
Hand 1: 59.589% 46.58% 13.01% 34 9.50 { JJ-66, A2s+, 87s, A2o+ }
Seems to me he is leading out on the turn to protect against a flush or bet his FD.. so I stuck 78s in there. Does this range seem reasonable?
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Jason
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 883
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It looks like he could definitely have an ace, but you're getting 3 to 1. Unless you have some better reads to contrary, which you've stated you don't, I don't see how you can fold. Basically the question comes down to how often will villain have a hand like A6, A5, A4, A3, A2, 7x, 10x, 8x, a busted spade draw, pocket pair, busted str8 draw, or air? If you think he'll have any of those type hands 1 out of 4 times or more, then call. If not, then fold. I'd probably call.
I'm not a big fan of shoving without a better read because I DO think an ace is very possible and would prefer not to risk any more of our $196 (what villain has) left of $244 (what we have left after a call) than I had to. If we shove and villain has any of the hands we beat, it's pretty likely he's not going to call, so we gain no value. If he has any of the hands that have us beat or tied, he's getting the same 3 to 1 price we are and he'd be in the same predicament and equally hard pressed to fold, so I don't see a lot of fold equity because we're just not deep enough (or more precisely, villain is not deep enough) and don't have enough behind to make a bluff work.
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- Jason
 
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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I feel like any time I decide to get creative in this type of spot and shove river, I always get called by any Ax here. This could be an image thing, not sure, but I'd probably avoid shoving here myself.
I'm not sure on villain here, but if I'm villain I might even be value towning with KK/QQ here if he ever gets there like this. Wouldn't be surprised to see some nonsense like 7x spades either some time.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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The shove also could fold out a lot of chops.
Outlaw, there's one thing I don't like about your ranges. Is he flatting a raise oop with AQ+?
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