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natdang
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06-26-2006, 11:31 PM
Post subject: I can't fold this, can I?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 380
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Villain is calling station, do I give him a set?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
UTG ($98.50)
Hero ($105.65)
Button ($104.70)
SB ($119)
BB ($8.10)
Preflop: Hero is MP with K , K .
1 fold, Hero raises to $4, Button calls $4, 2 folds.
Flop: ($9.50) 5, 2, 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $7, Button calls $7.
Turn: ($23.50) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $8, Hero raises to $19, Button calls $11.
River: ($61.50) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $35, Button raises to $74.7, Hero ???
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UG
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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other specific reads would help here, like does he do this with air, TPGK, two-pair, sets, etc
if by calling station you mean 'really dumb player' then I don't know if I can fold this, but it depends on what you've seen from him recently
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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if he has poor river aggression, I can fold this no worries.
Otherwise call this.
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boost
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 706
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really Im not trying to bash you, but I dont think anyone can tell you if he had you beat or not. The reason being, you fucked the hand up pretty bad. Why did you check raise the turn? What did you hope it would accomplish? When he calls you, what did you put him on, and what did you think your river bet would accomplish given the range youve put him on?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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I don't think theres much wrong with checkraising this turn
just don't raise minimum.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by boostNslide
Why did you check raise the turn? What did you hope it would accomplish?
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to build the pot?
other than the small size of the check raise i dont see anything wrong with it
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yorib
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oak Park, IL
Posts: 281
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Set? Doubful. I'd be more worried that he just pulled two pair. You have to call as you only need to be right 1/7 times (or so). If the 9 didn't help him, you'd think he'd reraise the turn. That's what makes this so troubling. Man, it's a very difficult decision. If the villian seems "aware" he could be trying to take the hand away from you, but still, it's tough. I think I"d make a "crying call" and then get upset at myself for betting so much on the river.
If he's a "nit" I have to fold, just because a c/r normally freezes people for a cheap showdown and he just blew right through it. You showed consistant (albeit tricky) aggression and he says he has you beat.
Tough.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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I think you are beat.
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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River raises this small are never bluffs or worse hands here, I fold.
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boost
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 706
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the check raise is small, should be bigger, but what check raise does he call thats bigger that we are beating? I guess I could be completely wrong because I dont check raise the turn much here, or at all, butI feel like a checkraise chases people away. Just like when you have AA on the button and someone has raised and someone has called, you gotta raise, but it just ends up working like a squeeze play most of the time and getting both to fold.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by boostNslide
the check raise is small, should be bigger, but what check raise does he call thats bigger that we are beating? I guess I could be completely wrong because I dont check raise the turn much here, or at all, butI feel like a checkraise chases people away.
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So start check-raising the turn with garbage then, if you think it chases people away. You'll be surprised how often people call you with top pair or worse. I bet this guy would've called a huge check-raise with A7.
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boost
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 706
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yah I guess I see what you guys are saying, I take back waht I said then.
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bdawg56kg
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 1,201
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I'd make it 32 on the turn and push the river. As played, I guess you gotta call, but I'm not feeling real good about it. But if he's a calling station like you described, I would much prefer just betting out on the turn. You don't want the turn to go check/check and miss a bet on the river when he calls you down with middle pair.
It seems like one thing you need to be more aware about is pot size management. Whenever you bet/call/raise, always know what the pot size and effective stacks will be on the next street, to prevent awkward situations like this.
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natdang
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 380
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The checkraise on turn was because I figured he'd put in a bet trying to take the pot away, as people often give no respect to my c-bets. I put him on overcards that missed the flop here. I was hoping to take the pot there, and I agree, the raise should've been bigger to accomplish this.
Bdawg, I get the pot size management when applied to more marginal hands like KJ, KT, etc, where you hit top pair but still can't trust your stack with the hand... but with a premium overpair like KK, wouldn't you want to bloat the pot here, to get value from lower PP's and pairs?
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