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minSim
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11-13-2009, 12:25 PM
Post subject: I c/r/f TPGK :S
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Villain 26/21/31(AFreq) over 135 hands, steal percentage 42.
So what I'm basically trying to do with my flop raise is get a call from Ax, FD's, 9x or TT-KK that don't believe me. I thought that range would be wide enough to warrant a flop raise.
Once villain 3bets I put him on AK+ and combodraws.
1. Is my general assumption about a standard calling and 3betting range accurate?
2. Does that warrant a c/r/f?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (SB) ($50)
BB ($50)
UTG ($76.15)
MP ($56.55)
CO ($52)
Button ($81.45)
Preflop: Hero is SB with Q , A
2 folds, CO bets $1.50, Button calls $1.50, Hero calls $1.25, 1 fold
Flop: ($5) A , 9, 5 (3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $3.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $9, CO raises to $50.50 (All-In), Hero folds
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Whats the 31? That cant be AF surely.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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aggresion frequency
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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If this was HU I'd like this c/r a lot more, since his cbetting range would be quite a bit wider and your raise would look weaker.
As played, I'm not playing it like this and folding.. but def not fist pumping.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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Who is the button? If he's fishy at all I would always squeeze this pf. As played its multiway therefore you're overepping your hand by c/r so I'd just flat.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Button was some loose passive that I didn't really want to loose pre, and I wasn't confident he was gonna fold all that often and I didn't wanna get it in with CO. There's little fighting back to sqeeuzes at these stakes, so it's usually turning my hand into a bluff.
Is overrepping that bad assuming villain is gonna call with 8+ draws and Ax?
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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Well you'll find that if he's a loose passive fish he's not folding pre flop very often. You'll dominate hands he continues with a bunch as well. If he's snap folding to squeezes a lot then flatting is fine but usually that's not the case.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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not squeezing made this hand way more difficult than it ever should have been.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Dragon Slayer
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 228
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by meeloche
Well you'll find that if he's a loose passive fish he's not folding pre flop very often. You'll dominate hands he continues with a bunch as well. If he's snap folding to squeezes a lot then flatting is fine but usually that's not the case.
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Great place to pull the Sqooze on a Loose passive player. As played Maybe a flop call and re-evaluate Turn. Him leading into 2 people looks fairly strong. With the LP on BTN hes prob fit or fold though.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Ok, I'll keep the sqeeuzing thing in mind.
As played pre everyone likes a flop c/c?
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Ravageur
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Official Montreal SwampRat
Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,242
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i'd c/call the flop as well, and like others said squeezing would be fine. Also you have a better chance for a bd flush because there are already red cards up there and they will attract their friends (more red)
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Family Cruise IMO
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by minSim
Ok, I'll keep the sqeeuzing thing in mind.
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minsim, is your standard play to call here? If so thats a pretty huge leak with AQs, let alone a ton of other profitable squeeze hands.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
Quote:
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Originally Posted by minSim
Ok, I'll keep the sqeeuzing thing in mind.
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minsim, is your standard play to call here? If so thats a pretty huge leak with AQs, let alone a ton of other profitable squeeze hands. |
Until now it´s still my standard yes  .
Are you calling shove from CO? Do you think he ever calls?
Do you use a standard sqeeuzing size?
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by minSim
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
Quote:
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Originally Posted by minSim
Ok, I'll keep the sqeeuzing thing in mind.
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minsim, is your standard play to call here? If so thats a pretty huge leak with AQs, let alone a ton of other profitable squeeze hands. |
Until now it´s still my standard yes .
Are you calling shove from CO? Do you think he ever calls?
Do you use a standard sqeeuzing size? |
this is like the poster child HH for a squeeze for value. Do we call a shove if CO shoves? That depends on reads vs this specific villain? idk if nl50 plays aggro enough that people are shoving a ton over squeezes, but you are def. getting called by worse from either CO or BT, if not both, to justify squeezing here. standard squeeze size for me varies, but its usually 2-2.5bb more that my 3bet size both IP and OOP.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
Quote:
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Originally Posted by minSim
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
Quote:
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Originally Posted by minSim
Ok, I'll keep the sqeeuzing thing in mind.
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minsim, is your standard play to call here? If so thats a pretty huge leak with AQs, let alone a ton of other profitable squeeze hands. |
Until now it´s still my standard yes .
Are you calling shove from CO? Do you think he ever calls?
Do you use a standard sqeeuzing size? |
this is like the poster child HH for a squeeze for value. Do we call a shove if CO shoves? That depends on reads vs this specific villain? idk if nl50 plays aggro enough that people are shoving a ton over squeezes, but you are def. getting called by worse from either CO or BT, if not both, to justify squeezing here. standard squeeze size for me varies, but its usually 2-2.5bb more that my 3bet size both IP and OOP. |
My assumption is mostly that rarely anybody calls a sqeeuze. Definately not an aggro player like CO.
BTN as the passive player is more likely of course, so if that merits sqeeuzing here I'll take that.
I'm not calling a shove though and I'm not confident CO isn't shoving AQ/TT/JJ which makes me feel kinda bad 3bet/folding.
Therefor my sqeeuzing range here (and in general) is even more polarised then my 3betting range and more weighted towards bluffs. Yours is not?
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by minSim
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
Quote:
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Originally Posted by minSim
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
Quote:
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Originally Posted by minSim
Ok, I'll keep the sqeeuzing thing in mind.
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minsim, is your standard play to call here? If so thats a pretty huge leak with AQs, let alone a ton of other profitable squeeze hands. |
Until now it´s still my standard yes .
Are you calling shove from CO? Do you think he ever calls?
Do you use a standard sqeeuzing size? |
this is like the poster child HH for a squeeze for value. Do we call a shove if CO shoves? That depends on reads vs this specific villain? idk if nl50 plays aggro enough that people are shoving a ton over squeezes, but you are def. getting called by worse from either CO or BT, if not both, to justify squeezing here. standard squeeze size for me varies, but its usually 2-2.5bb more that my 3bet size both IP and OOP. |
My assumption is mostly that rarely anybody calls a sqeeuze. Definately not an aggro player like CO.
BTN as the passive player is more likely of course, so if that merits sqeeuzing here I'll take that.
I'm not calling a shove though and I'm not confident CO isn't shoving AQ/TT/JJ which makes me feel kinda bad 3bet/folding.
Therefor my sqeeuzing range here (and in general) is even more polarised then my 3betting range and more weighted towards bluffs. Yours is not? |
the bolded part is a bad assumption to make. someone correct me if i'm wrong, but plenty of people are calling squeezes light at nl100/nl200 in my experience, especially IP. They see this as a great squeeze opportunity also, and know you can be doing it light so they will peel with KQ/AJ/AT type hands. and i know you didn't give any reads on BTN, but if he is a loose/passive player then you need to be squeezing a ton of hands for value here. yeah, it would be awesome to be IP here, but if we can squeeze out the good reg and keep the fish (or atleast not so great player) in the pot while we have a strong hand then sign me up.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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People definitely call squeezes on occasion. Sometimes the first player calls hoping to give odds to the player behind. Or sometimes the player behind calls knowing he's last to act.
And if you really think ppl fold that much to squeezes, that means you're bluff squeezing a ton instead?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
And if you really think ppl fold that much to squeezes, that means you're bluff squeezing a ton instead?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by minSim
Therefor my sqeeuzing range here (and in general) is even more polarised then my 3betting range and more weighted towards bluffs. Yours is not?
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But really, I don't really know what I'm doing as I'm not sure how wide my sqeeuzing range is here and if it's even wide compared to others people's. I'd say lots of SC's and gappers(excl broadways), Axs, some unsuited connected cards. (I would probably chicken out with a decent amount of those)
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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If MP raises, button calls, are you flatting hands like KQo, KJo, AJ etc in the SB/BB?
A lot of times it won't be profitable to play these hands OOP, and will be hard to win a big pot and easy to lose a medium sized pot. So its often better to squeeze or fold some of these hands.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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I'm rarely calling the unsuited stuff OOP and almost always sqeeuzing them.
The suited ones usually the other way around.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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id squeeze here 100bb deep eff. literally 100% of the time against 100% of opponents. its not even close
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Quote:
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id squeeze here 100bb deep eff. literally 100% of the time against 100% of opponents. its not even close
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You getting it in ?
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
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u seem to use stats so just look at their 4b% or something. in my games if i elect to 3bet AQs in a certain spot i am always jamming over a 4b but im sure there are regs at low stakes that you can make folds against.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
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My samplesize is usually not big enough to rely on the 4bet stat. But generally I expect to be behind a shoving range of CO. I'm probably getting it in against BTN here if he backshoves.
Assuming I would fold to a CO shove you would still sqeeuze?
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
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wait, people just ship 50 bucks as the PFR if you make it 5.75 here? id fold to that as a default. im definitely calling a backjam, the question is whether we can jam profitably if the CO makes it 12 to go.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Quote:
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wait, people just ship 50 bucks as the PFR if you make it 5.75 here? id fold to that as a default. im definitely calling a backjam, the question is whether we can jam profitably if the CO makes it 12 to go.
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We might have to go back one step here as 5.75 doesn't seem like a standard sqeeuze size. I thought of a smaller sqeeuze size before to get lighter calls, is that your reasoning as well?
A standard size for me is like 6,75 or 7. That probably favours a shove by villain(s) more often and less calls.
It seems as if I'm more polarised than most here and use a bigger betsizing to go with it. At least those seem related in a positive way, but it's not the most profitable way to go.
A more profitable way would be to open up my value range and use a smaller betsize to get calls from worse hands?
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