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I am a little lost here

  
 
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rewfie40
Old 01-11-2009, 12:42 AM     Post subject: I am a little lost here #1 (permalink)  
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I haven't noticed any irregularities from villain. What do you put him on with his flat on the flop? I assumed he was a typical 50nl donk and had some form of a flush draw or possibly 44 and A4. The king on the turn didn't really scare me so i led for 40 not really thinking about what i would do if he were to push over me. I was pretty set in stone going into the turn that he had a flush draw so i was quite surprised when he check raised me. Do you put AK in his range now? Is this a call and puke solely based on the size of the pot or is a fold in need here?

Also, is 40 to much on the turn? If so what would be more appropriate?

lakers99 $131.59
starrent $88.62
HERO $112.89

kshaun Ante/Small blind $ 0.25
lakers99 Big blind/Bring in $ 0.50
kshaun Card dealt to a spot
lakers99 Card dealt to a spot
starrent Card dealt to a spot
jackduck Card dealt to a spot
HERO Card dealt to a spot Ah Qc
starrent Call $ 0.50
jackduck Fold
HERO Raise $ 2.00
kshaun Call $ 1.75
lakers99 Call $ 1.50
starrent Call $ 1.50

Betting round completed Last active pot = $8.00
Card dealt to table Ac Qs 4c

kshaun Check
lakers99 Check
starrent Bet $ 6.00
HERO Raise $ 20.00
kshaun Fold
lakers99 Call $ 20.00
starrent Fold

Betting round completed Last active pot = $54.00
Card dealt to table Kh

lakers99 Check
HERO Bet $ 40.00
lakers99 All-in $ 109.59
HERO (50.89) ?
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Galapogos
Old 01-11-2009, 01:52 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 There's no way this is a bluff. It feels super gross but I think you have to fold here. You should definitely bet a bit less on the turn too, you're not really going to get action from AJ or less.

I don't know if I'm being results oriented, but after his flop cold call I wonder if a turn check would have been best.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
 
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kmind
Old 01-11-2009, 01:58 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galapogos
There's no way this is a bluff. It feels super gross but I think you have to fold here. You should definitely bet a bit less on the turn too, you're not really going to get action from AJ or less.

I don't know if I'm being results oriented, but after his flop cold call I wonder if a turn check would have been best.
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bode
Old 01-11-2009, 03:57 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 were getting 4:1 on a call now and cant fold.
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
 
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Galapogos
Old 01-11-2009, 04:49 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bode
were getting 4:1 on a call now and cant fold.
Why?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
 
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thizzSantaCruz
Old 01-11-2009, 06:41 PM #6 (permalink)  
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only 44 and TJ beat us, I don't get it.
Flopping quads and boats like its my job
 
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Toadstool
Old 01-11-2009, 06:43 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 nothing we beat plays this way.
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Galapogos
Old 01-11-2009, 11:26 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz
only 44 and TJ beat us, I don't get it.
Ok that's true, but what other hands are you expecting to do this?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
 
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nutsinho
Old 01-12-2009, 04:16 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 our turn bet is beyond terrible
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
 
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JL
Old 01-12-2009, 06:15 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsinho
our turn bet is beyond terrible
The sizing is terrible or betting at all is terrible?
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nutsinho
Old 01-12-2009, 06:31 AM #11 (permalink)  
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 Well, we should be putting him on a range of hands that has some% of marginal hands like AJ and some % of strong hands like 44/AQ and not many other hands really fit. We should have some general idea of how this guy plays also. If he's some huge clown that will show up with Ax a lot then we want all the money to go in; if he's going to play his range more appropriately and usually fold marginal hands to a barrel and stack off with AQ+ then we want to check or bet really small. If we want to continue to play our hand for value then we want to take as much money as possible from the weak part of his range. Betting 40$ looks really strong and leaves 50$ left in a pot of 134 so it's essentially like going all in. Notice that we only need to bet 12$ to set up a river pot sized shove, and that this line could be very confusing. In spots where your range is polarized and the weaker part of your opponents range has very little equity against your value range (this hand is not a perfect example of this but i think this is an important concept and an all right example), you should generally not be betting bigger than you need to in order to get all in without overbetting. I'd recommend betting no more than 20$ on this turn if you bet at all (this is very read dependent). Furthermore, betting 40 and not knowing what to do for 50$ more shows very little understanding of NLHE. You need to plan your hands and have an overall idea of what you are doing in every hand (bluffing, thin value betting, trying to get all in by the river, etc.) and sizing your bets accordingly.
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
 
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Da GOAT
Old 01-12-2009, 10:32 AM #12 (permalink)  
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v nice post nuts
Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
 
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rewfie40
Old 01-12-2009, 08:59 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Thanks for the advice and insight guys. I really didn't have much of a read on this guy and kind of just assumed he was some donk, and for this reason didn't put too much thought into the sizing of my turn bet. Nuts, I like the idea of betting small on the turn but, but for me personally i think checking behind on the turn would make it easier for me to evaluate. This way i can reevaluate on the river and give him a chance to bet at it with hands that I beat (although I likely am beat by hands he bets here), or if he checks i might be able to get some value from hands that otherwise would not call on the turn.

Is this the correct logic for checking the turn?
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