Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

P.S. I know this is 2/4 but i felt like this needed more higher level responses.

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

This is my problem with shoving the flop:

I don't think LK thinks im going to shove the flop with a 2 from what he's seen of me. I think he's way more likely to think i shove the flop with only hands like FD's, 88, Q7+. Therefore, he really can't fold anything to my raise if this read is correct.

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

My call (which was almost instant) was obviously to shove any river when he checked behind the turn.... except maybe this one.

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

The last is I think i rep a 2 way better with calling the threebet and pot control is almost guaranteed to allow me to shove the river.

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Actually me and sauce were talking about this and the answer IMO is no, threebetting pre isnt standard.

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

If we threebet 33, and the flop comes J74. We bet and he calls. We really cant continue and we've just spewed away 1/4 of our stack.

Originally Posted by pocketfours

Perhaps standard is the wrong word for it. I still think it's usually the correct way to play it.

I don't think an unimproved pocket pair is easy to play OOP which is why I usually try to take down the pot right away. Now you usually have pretty close to 50% equity with a small PP, why would you like to pay for playing that kind of hand OOP without the lead? If you flop a set in a 2-bet pot, you aren't going to get your opponents whole stack very often. Small pocket pairs don't play as well OOP in HU as they do with more players.

If we shut down after the cbet I don't see that play as spewing in any way. Even the cbet is for value. And the stack surely hasn't gone 'away'. Even if he calls, he is often floating with A high, in which case we might win the pot anyway. Sometimes we will also hit our set on the turn or the river and other times we will hit our runner flush or straight, so it's by no means 'game over'.

If I'm playing against a passive calling station I will never threebet PPs. I know I will win big if I hit my set and if I don't I can usually get a cheap showdown.

Conditions that IMO favor threebetting:
1. Villain doesn't call threebets light. This gives good implied odds when you hit your set.
2. Villain often folds to cbets in reraised pots and doesn't float 'by default'.
3. Villain almost never fourbets and traps with AA and KK.
4. Villain raises with a very wide range (>90%) on the button.
5. Stacks are over 125BB deep.
6. I want to turn up the aggression.

Originally Posted by johnny_fish

I meant 3betting QJs pre, it's definitely way more flexible/easier to play in a reraised pot oop than 33.