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Lukie
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08-05-2006, 03:47 PM
Post subject: How weak is this?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Not sure what to think of this hand. I know QQ overpair is a huge hand in a button game, but villain seemed tight, and when tight players call a pfr from the sb then c/r me after I bet in a 3 way pot, it tends to freeze me up. At the time, I was torn between pot control and trying to agressively stack a hand like AJ, and I obviously chose the former. River I bet pretty weak, just over half the pot, because I know this guy is weak after c/r'ing the flop then checking to me twice, so I'm just trying to milk this sucker. River was beautiful, but if he had a hand like Jx, not good for getting paid off on.
FWIW, apparantly villain (Grandiose) is a known high stakes player that consistently plays 5/10 and 10/20, but I did not know this at the time. Other villain seemed better then this guy, though (not sure who he is.. acesfull2833). My game selection skills have always blown, by the way.
edit: What they think of me: Who knows. In my mind, I'm clearly better then both of these players. The should view me as a solid TAgg, and I need to emphasize the AGG in that. It's also very possible they view me as a fish (because unknowns are ALWAYS bad players, /sarcasm) just because I'm not a reg in this game. Both of these guys are on my only other 5/10 table that I had open (this hand took place 2 days ago I think).
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (3 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
BB ($1226)
Hero ($1725)
SB ($1040.25)
Preflop: Hero is Button with Q , Q .
Hero raises to $35, SB calls $30, BB calls $25.
Flop: ($105) 7 , J , 3 (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $80, SB raises to $220, BB folds, Hero calls $140.
Turn: ($545) 6 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.
River: ($545) Q (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $285...
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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I like a flop 3-bet since it's 3-handed.
As played, I think Villain should be capable of c/r the turn with Jx so let him.
River smells like an obvious c/c, so maybe bet a bit more.
I suck <5-handed btw, so take it fwiw.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Can you give a quick explanation for why you want to 3-bet the flop here? I'm not saying it's wrong, but the board is extremely dry and IMO 3-betting the flop here lets him play perfect poker. I can't imagine he would continue with a hand like AJ or worse in this spot. Calling in position seems like the overwhelmingly best option, IMO.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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bet 200 the turn fold to a push. Check/raise/check is not a sign of strength. EDIT: unless he's a super-donk-xlseries
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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i usually bet turn, but checking can be ok, flop and river are fine
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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I like it all pretty much.
Not sure about the turn. You will get trapped some if you bet but you will miss value some if you check. It's probably pretty even EV.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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He thought for about 1/3 of a second and called with JT.
*I need to play in this game more often.*
FWIW, I think they were both really loosening up their calling standards as they probably thought I was an over-aggro donkey and I bet they expected to get paid off when they ACTUALLY started playing back at me, as if I wouldn't notice or something  . Unfortunately, I left soon after this hand b/c I had some stuff to take care of. I had them right where I wanted, though.
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
bet 200 the turn fold to a push. Check/raise/check is not a sign of strength. EDIT: unless he's a super-donk-xlseries
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Making a weak bet in an aggressive shorthanded game with the intention of folding to a raise is bad.
I would bet the turn for $350 and call a push, a check is fine though. I would've bet a little bigger on the river, but that bet is fine too. He might have folded the hand he had for a slightly larger bet.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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In relation to the pot 200 is a weak bet but in relation to the stacks its a nearly committing one.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
Can you give a quick explanation for why you want to 3-bet the flop here? I'm not saying it's wrong, but the board is extremely dry and IMO 3-betting the flop here lets him play perfect poker. I can't imagine he would continue with a hand like AJ or worse in this spot. Calling in position seems like the overwhelmingly best option, IMO.
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I don't know how aggressive you've been playing. It's 3-handed so you might get it all-in vs. Jx on this flop.
What's your line if the flop was 2-tone?
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by aislephive
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
bet 200 the turn fold to a push. Check/raise/check is not a sign of strength. EDIT: unless he's a super-donk-xlseries
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Making a weak bet in an aggressive shorthanded game with the intention of folding to a raise is bad.
I would bet the turn for $350 and call a push, a check is fine though. I would've bet a little bigger on the river, but that bet is fine too. He might have folded the hand he had for a slightly larger bet. |
The game isn't playing very agressively outside of me, it seems like these guys expect to make a hand and get paid. They might get 1 or 2 barrells out of me, but they aren't going to double through me without a bad case of being cold-decked. They just aren't being agressive enough, rarely leading into my PFR's, etc. FWIW, I do agree with your point, though. I think this hand is just good enough to go broke on, but I'm not really sure. I like your $350 line too, since $200 makes it so that a lot of cards kill my action or could potentially beat me on the river.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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I don't know how aggressive you've been playing. It's 3-handed so you might get it all-in vs. Jx on this flop.
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Possibly. I've been very agressive following through once and twice after I raise, and leading into button raises after the flop. But I think this guy can still see some serious strength in an all-in. Especially on such a drawless board. Which is why I prefer waiting until the turn to bomb it, if possible. Which is why I kind of hate my turn check now...
Quote:
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What's your line if the flop was 2-tone?
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Not sure what I'd do, probably vary up between pushing and calling and getting it in on most turns.
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