www.flopturnriver.com

Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

Already Registered? Username: Password: Remember Forgot Password
Tweet

how spew are these bluffs?

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display Modes

griffey24

03-26-2007, 04:05 AM Post subject: how spew are these bluffs?

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Hand 1:
-villain is a solid player 25/10/2.11
-he's capable of making a fold, he often "slow plays" overpairs by flat calling my raises since i'm raising pretty often 30/25ish, and then raising my cont bets
-he has called/raised flops before and then folded to later street agression

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $109.75
Hero: $98.50
Button: $193.75
SB: $89.75
BB: $117.99

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with

UTG folds, Hero raises to $4, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop:

($9.5, 2 players)
Hero bets $6.75, Button raises to $16, Hero calls.

Turn:

($41.5, 2 players)
Hero bets $23.5, Button calls.

River:

($88.5, 2 players)
Hero is all-in $55

Hand 2:
-Button is pretty solid, 23/7/1.7, not too aggressive. I put him on a low/mid pocket on the flop
-BB no real reads, new to the table, 35/11 so far

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $150
CO: $230.75
Button: $53.80
SB: $46.50
BB: $99.13

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with

Hero raises to $4, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop:

($12.5, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $11.5, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn:

($47, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $38.3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!

gabe

03-26-2007, 04:16 AM

#2 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: trying to live

Posts: 7,964

gabe is an unknown quantity at this point

first one sucks, sucks to play out of position, doenst it???

2nd is fine

Genitruc

03-26-2007, 04:20 AM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 4,463

Genitruc is an unknown quantity at this point

I think 1st one is lighting money on fire.

2nd one seems o.k. to me.

edit : lol next time I'll read other replies before spewing out exactly what gabe said.

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

griffey24

03-26-2007, 04:28 AM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genitruc

I think 1st one is lighting money on fire.

lol.. I like this reply. Ok so why is the first one so bad? what do we put villain on here? what could he call a push with? I think if I was villain, I'd fold a high pocket in this spot even. I think the turn call was with a made hand or 1 decent spade.

<edit: should i have planned this bluff out better. ie: bet less on the turn, so that if called, my push was bigger on the river? would that make it better?>

So the second one is ok, even though it is into two players?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

IowaSkinsFan

03-26-2007, 05:09 AM

#5 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough

i like the second one.
first one he has a 3 here a lot.

Check out the new blog!!!

Genitruc

03-26-2007, 08:19 AM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 4,463

The big problem with the 1st one is that once villain calls the turn he's pretty much saying "I'm not scared of the flush and I'm pricing myself in".

That's why it seems bad to me. If he folded, then sweet. But I'd doubt he did (probably called w 88 LOL).

For this same reason, I don't think it matter at all about bet-sizing on turn/river. It's more about villain telling you"I wanna fold" or "LOL I'm calling". Usually when a villain takes this line it's the latter.

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

Halv

03-26-2007, 08:45 AM

#7 (permalink)

pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: No hindsight for the blind.

Posts: 1,842

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genitruc

edit : lol next time I'll read other replies before spewing out exactly what gabe said.

I actually think replying before reading the rest of the replies is a very good idea.

I'm not sure if I like hand 2, as we need to fold out two people.

First music vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFerARdGW04
Free stream of different song here: http://www.nrk.no/urort/artist/wellfear ('Lytt'/play button on right side)

griffey24

03-26-2007, 11:38 AM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

i like the second one.
first one he has a 3 here a lot.

Yah, definitely possible he has a 3. Though with the way villain plays (ne _never_ 3-bets three flop it seems), I thought it was probably more likely he had 88-AA here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genitruc

For this same reason, I don't think it matter at all about bet-sizing on turn/river. It's more about villain telling you"I wanna fold" or "LOL I'm calling". Usually when a villain takes this line it's the latter.

Lets suppose you guys had an overpair here, with a spade. I donk lead into you on the turn repping the flush and you call trying to say "LOL I'm calling", but really saying "I want you to think i'm calling, so that you don't fire at me again with your nonsense bluff". Doesn't a high spade call this half pot-ish turn with the intention of folding a river "I actually do have a flush" 3/4 pot allin bet?

Or maybe thats just how I would play a high pair, and should be making these river calls more often.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

Genitruc

03-26-2007, 05:00 PM

#9 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 4,463

Your reasoning is really good.

Problem is that most ppl just suck. So when you post a really sophisticated play like this at .5-1$ most ppl will think LOL@PUSHING PPL OFF OF HANDS.

Based on the read you posted I suppose it's ok.

Btw I think villain is more likely to have a flush himself here than a bare overpair and flat-called the turn fearing a boat.

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

griffey24

03-26-2007, 05:27 PM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genitruc

Btw I think villain is more likely to have a flush himself here than a bare overpair and flat-called the turn fearing a boat.

Yah you're right, I didn't think of this. He could easily just be letting me hang myself, while he's sitting on a flush in this spot as well.

For what its worth. In the first hand, villain had QQ with the Q of spades. I'm not sure how it would have played out had the Q not hit the river, but clearly I got pwned on the river lol

The second hand, Button called the turn with a set of 4's and the BB folded. The river was a blank, and Button took it down.

yay to bluffing off stacks into set/boats lol

I just wanted to see if these bluffs were good or not, aside from the poor results which ensued.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

zenbitz

03-26-2007, 08:28 PM

#11 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Posts: 2,911

I think QQ with 1 spade might call even if the Q doesn't river. I mean it only allows him to beat a few unlikley hands (KK/AA/77/JJ). Not sure why you called his flop c/r in the first place.

Galapogos

03-26-2007, 11:06 PM

#12 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: The Loser's Lounge

Posts: 2,323

Hand #1 sucks because you left him no folding equity on the river.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.

Harry

03-27-2007, 07:06 AM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2006

Location: Philly

Posts: 722

I think the 2nd one has a lot more value. I don't like the 1st one... when deciding whether to 2nd and 3rd barrel, you need to put opp on a hand. What hand did you put him on (at the time, not now)?

PSU Class of 2011 weeeeeeee!

griffey24

03-27-2007, 10:38 AM

#14 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenbitz

Not sure why you called his flop c/r in the first place.

It was a flat raise, since i'm OOP, but he had been owning my cont bets with position a lot that day, so calling was purely to steal on a later street. Also, I know this villain is capable of a fold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

Hand #1 sucks because you left him no folding equity on the river.

Yah I think this is one of the bigger problems of the play. I guess I should either bet less on the turn, or only try this with a bigger stack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

zenbitz

03-27-2007, 08:05 PM

#15 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Posts: 2,911

Quote:

Originally Posted by griffey24

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenbitz

Not sure why you called his flop c/r in the first place.

It was a flat raise, since i'm OOP, but he had been owning my cont bets with position a lot that day, so calling was purely to steal on a later street. Also, I know this villain is capable of a fold.

My bad. But I guess bet/raise/call doesn't leave enough behind for a good bluff, unless you overbet push turn (that seems even worse). Maybe check/call or check/raise flop if you feel the need to pull a multi-street bluff 100BB deep??

elipsesjeff

03-27-2007, 08:38 PM

#16 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Northern Virginia

Posts: 4,900

elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

Originally Posted by griffey24

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenbitz

Not sure why you called his flop c/r in the first place.

It was a flat raise, since i'm OOP, but he had been owning my cont bets with position a lot that day, so calling was purely to steal on a later street. Also, I know this villain is capable of a fold.

Reraising the flop to 35 then shutting down when called may be better. But, i've lead this turn sometimes about 2/3's the pot if i think my cbets arent being respected and he's trying to bully me.

Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.

Latest Poker News
Bbickes	06-02-2012, 08:10 PM Merge Network 6.0 Looks to Retain Current Player Base
In an effort to perhaps keep players from moving to the new Revolution Network setup by the former Lock Poker, Merge Network has taken drastic steps to respond to their player base's requests to impro ... more at Poker Blogs »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Trackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:37 PM.

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum

This is not a gambling website.

Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

Poker Forum

Short-Handed NL Hold'em

how spew are these bluffs?

Play for FREE and practice your game at...